to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

perfectly adequate public transport exist

I looked into this. I live in a village, 20 mins to nearest biggest town. I thought,
"If I got a regular job in that town could I get the bus"
Sure, I I wanted to start at 10am, first bus is 9.15 and finish at 6, last return bus is 6.10.
Instead of 20 mins they take 40.

I wonder how much of the environmental impact of buses is a positive as often they take much more convoluted routes with much less efficient engines.

E should all walk, get a bicycle or bring back horses as everyday transport.
Catch a hansom and pay 2pennies.

Some of the comments on this thread really typify the classist mentality whereby public transport is for the lower classes. It's interesting as a working professional taking public transport in my area - some people at my work wouldn't set foot on a bus, ever, and seem to look down on anyone who does.

because people running public transport don't consider that sometimes people don't just need to go from the suburbs to a city centre and back again.

Definitely! I was once asked to take part in a traffic survey. They wanted to know where I was going from and to where. I said it wasn't that simple but the interviewer did the "computer says" routine and insisted on knowing just A and B.
In fact I was going from A to B, then to C, to D, back to C, then E then home because I was a multi-tasking employee and mother. That sort of journey just doesn't figure in their thinking.

Round here, OP, it is the infrequent buses - with their 2 passengers - who are the problem, not cars.

Buses dint always go where I want to go! I actually live ON a very reliable bus route which is fine if I want to go to the shops in one of two directions...

Last night DD and I went out, I drove, it took 15 minutes to drive and I parked right outside our destination. To go by bus would have meant two different buses with a five minute walk between buses and a ten minute walk at the end.

DD is working a shift this evening. I have offered her a lift as it will take me 15 to 20 minutes driving. The first bus is a 10 minute ride then she changes to another which is timetabled to take 50 minutes to her destination but often takes over an hour.

Buses don’t take the straightest route because they have to serve as many people as possible but I do have a car and I will continue to use it.

I am disabled and drive as i can then have my wheelchair in the boot if i need it. Alot of bus routes mean there is still a big walk at the stop. Buses may be better for the environment but driving makes things that bit easier for me if i couldn't drive I just wouldn't be able to go out as much making me even more isolated than I already am.

I completely agree with you. My husband's a bus snob so wouldn't use park and ride on Saturday. We had to go to three car parks before we found any spaces (tourist city), then had to walk miles. Park and ride would have dropped us exactly where we wanted to be.

I don't know where I'm going to be working from one day to the next and often have to visit more than one site in a day. Public transport wouldn't wouldn't be an option, takes too much time that I don't have researching times, routes etc

I didn’t have a car until abot 5 months ago.

Before I had a car my day looked like this:
15min walk to bus stop with two young kids
Bus often late.
10min bus ride then another 15min walk to next bus stop
Bus often late
15min bus ride to drop dc1 at school.
Either 15min walk or 5min bus to drop dc2 at nursery.
Then I have to get to work - so wait for an often late bus.
20-30minute busride to town.
10min walk to the train station
20min train ride. Change train. Another 10min train ride.
15min walk to work.

Then reverse the whole lot st the end of the day.

I was exhausted every day, the kids were exhausted everyday. We had no time together during the week, it was home food bed. It cost me about £100 a week.

Now I have a car. It’s a 5min Drive to drop dc1 at school because I can go he quick route not the bus route, another 5 mins to nursery, then a 30min drive straight to work, then reverse it st the end of the day. I get time to chat and play with my kids before cooking dinner, then more time before bed. We are all less tired and enjoy having more time with each other at home. I put £30 of fuel in the car every fortnight roughly and pay £4 a day parking which I am able to claim back on expenses.

Sorry but it’s no contest.

Any solution to my getting home from work in the small hours? Or is it acceptable for me to drive?

Flaskfan

Dh has had to use the bus to get to work for the last few weeks. He has to get 2 buses (which don't connect properly). It takes 70 minutes in the morning and 90 at night. It takes 20 minutes to drive. If i didn't have my car, I wouldn't even be able to get a bus to work.

It literally adds on hours to your day

My friend who dosent drive her daughter attends a dance class after school across town they usually don’t get home until about 7 at night if she had a car she would be home by 5 it’s not fat but in a odd place so it’s 3 buses then a 20 minute walk

also why should a nurse police officer or a fireman who happen to live in London or a city have to endure the ducking night bus to get to work

I actually think private car ownership should only be for people who are certified as meeting certain criteria, such as disability, old age or needing a van for work. Having over a certain number of children might also qualify you.

We do need much better public transport outside major cities first, though.

The only place I wouldn't/don't drive is London. But that's only because parking is rare and expensive. And of course, the public transport is good. I drive everywhere else. Becaue I like to. Because I like my car. Because I like the convenience/spontaneity. Because I like the fact I haven't got to think about how I'm going to transport stuff back home. That sort of thing.

I think you are being goady.

I work shifts so need my car for work. There is no public transport available for the times I start early and the times I finish late. I use the car for shopping when I ha e a lot to get. If I only need a few bits I walk 25 minutes to the local shop. People need cars. Public transport is fine but for some people working a long day then adding hours on to their journey isn't a viable option.

If I took public transport, I would spend 4.5 hours (minimum!) a day on commuting (bus, train, bus). I usually drive it in max 2.5 hours instead. As I see it, it's not a real alternative to me (time-wise or financially).

Before I had this commute, I had little recurring need for a car for 13 years. It did, however, limit outings with DS.

Public transport is usually worse than taking a car in all sorts of ways. It is a very privileged position to take to declare that people mustn't go strawberry picking unless it's on a bus route.

It's a vicious circle though. For all the people here (and me) saying that something would be a short drive or an hour bus journey - well, if more of us took the bus, there would be (a) far more bus routes and buses and (b) far quicker journeys due to reduced congestion.
This doesn't mean you couldn't ever drive, but I see no problem with making driving a less attractive option. This is killing people.
www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/04/report-links-childs-asthma-death-to-illegal-levels-of-air-pollution

Also, my job requires me to have a car for outreach.

9 Miles from the nearest train station. Last bus leaves the village at 6:30pm. Work on an old RAF airbase in the middle of nowhere.
Would struggle to do anything without my car

I've just looked up how I would get to work on public transport.

Walk 1 mile to bus station -20 mins
Bus to local city -40 mins
Bus to another town - 25 mins
Bus to work town -15 mins
Walk from bus station to work - 30 mins

Total: 2hr 10mins
Current drive: 40 mins

No brainer really

but up until cars become ubiquitous there WERE really good rail networks

Yes and no. The very rural village I lived in for a decade had its rail service cut back in the 1950s (pre-Beeching even). The only ubiquitous vehicles around then were probably tractors.

I don't think any kids around here would make it to school without cars. I live on a huge 1960s housing estate which wmhas been added to in the 70s 80s 90s and ever since. Within a mile of my house there are 5 infnat/junior/primary schools and 2 comprehensive. All schools on little residential roads surrounded by footpaths and pavements. It Is absolute gridlock at school run time. Local busses have stopped running or changing thier routes at school run times ro avoid the streets w8rh paeenrs paejungbfor drio off and pick up. Buses actually cant get through certain streets for parked cars during school run.

99% of kids at these schools live on our huge estate but hardly any can be seen walking to school.
When the parents are asked why theybsrive when they live so local it's down to time pressure. Apparently they all need to get to work or are on their way home from work.

I love the idea of public transport but even very good public transport won't solve the time pressure these parents obviously have.

I try to use public transport where possible but sometimes it is too expensive or just doesn’t exist.
More often than not I work nights and even though I live and work in a city the bus to my place of employment stops an hour before I need it.

We are a large family, train travel is prohibitively expensive, so it’s a case of use the car (an actual mini bus, when we all travel) or never go anywhere.

I wish public transport was cheaper and readily available (I do campaign about this in my city) because I would use it daily.

My preious job was approx 2 miles away so I used the bike even though some of the route was on a country road and it was a bit dangerous to drive there to be honest. But it was only a part time job, no buses and I didn't earn enough to justify a car. Present job takes 35 minutes by car and would take 2½-3 hours or more by public transport.

but are you genuinely ok with the thousands of deaths per year caused by pollution from traffic?
Are there thousands of people in the UK who die from pollution? That’s news to me!

Damn those council house dwelling jobless scum that want to buy food or visit family
It has nothing to do specifically with being unemployed or living in a council house. There are many decent people who are unfortunately in that situation. I’m talking about long term unemployed chavs who can’t be bothered to work and who sit on the bus in their tracksuits being antisocial and using foul language.

I agree I'm some areas, disagree in others. That said, I only drive if there's no alternative but the drives some people make without it even occurring to them to walk boggle my mind.

Where there is decent transport I don't get why people don't use it, to me it's preferable to driving and the stress of parking (which seems to be a pain virtually everywhere these days).

We recently moved and part of the criteria was not having to drive as much.