to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Some people who get on buses aren’t the sort of people you want to be on a bus with. Drunk alcoholics, unemployed chavs, smelly people, violent people, etc. I’ve seen fights, people urinating and vomiting on the bus, people asking for the bus to stop so they can get off briefly to urinate on the pavement, foul language used in front of small children, etc. Driving is a luxury I’m happy to pay for in order for me and my DC to avoid these people. I feel sorry for decent people who have to get the bus.

Plus the bus goes round the world and trebles your journey time. And if you have a pram (like mine which doesn’t fold) they will stop the bus and make you get off if a wheelchair user wants to get on.

Unnecessary car journeys really annoy me. I live in a city with great public transport. My street is just outside the city centre and has free street parking and every day people use my street as a park and ride. Our road is gridlock every day with all the school run people. Yesterday the buses in town couldn’t move because some a-hole in a Range Rover had parked and the buses couldn’t get past.

I grew up here and it didn’t use to be like this. Most families had just one car - now they have one for every driver. Kids used to walk or get the bus to school - now they are driven. People try and drive into the city centre rather than take public transport. It is nuts.

I wish people had more awareness of what their selfish need to drive everywhere is doing in terms of pollution and congestion. Everyone thinks someone else is the problem. If you’re in a car, you are traffic.

Where I used to live there was no train station for miles and the nearest bus stop was 20 minutes walk away. So a journey to work would have involved the 20 minutes walk at 0630, then wait for another bus with a 1 hour 10 minute journey into the city, then another 20 minute walk to the office. Same in reverse for the evening. So I used my car every day.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you

You do realise that all disabilities are different?

I'm a wheelchair user, but I also suffer with masses of pain. I have mental illnesses too. These things completely prevent me from using public transport - there's no way, assisted or otherwise, that I'd be able to travel by anything other than my own car. Add to that the fact that I'm in rural Wales and public transport is few and far between. My nearest train station is a 20 minute drive and my nearest bus stop has buses that run once daily to one location.

I will drive because I have to and because I want to.

PS I totally understand why people in the country need to drive. But even they could park and ride to get into the city, and it would make it a lot nicer here.

Ds has a hospital appointment today, 15 minute drive or over an hour on the bus. Especially given how undisabled friendly public transport is its a no brainier!

I walk if at all possible but public transport is very much a last resort for me!

Forgot to mention the bus stop 20 minutes away only had an hourly service and even that wasn't reliable.

Asked her to come strawberry picking Ashe is unable why because you will need a car to get to the farm or would have to take a cab

but you don't NEED to go strawberry picking, or you can go strawberry picking somewhere else reachable by public transport...

see, this is the entitlement I am talking about. Who feels entitled to poison the air for everybody else because they have a right to go strawberry picking!

And we have just come back from holiday and drove and camped it would cost up nearly and extra 600 on top to hire a car if we didn’t already have one

why would you need to hire a car? We go camping every year by public transport, and I am a single mum with two children, and we have done since the youngest was out of a push chair.

This is partly what i mean by the assumption that a car is needed. You can manage without.

Clairetree1

Sort out an "adequate" public transport system that works everywhere in England/UK and you may have a point.

My husband is a nurse who delivers chemotherapy do you suggest he parks and rides

OP why are you assuming people are going the same way as the bus?

I frequently work outside London and so while I may drive part the way of bus routes I'm actually going another 20-30 miles.

Unfortunately I can't take the train as many business parks are deliberately placed where public transport is limited. Some employers do lay on buses or taxis to train stations, but the connections to that train station mean the journey takes another 60-90 minutes.

Generally if I going out and about for leisure I don't drive as public transport is adequate and I cannot be bothered to deal with parking.

Some people who get on buses aren’t the sort of people you want to be on a bus with... unemployed chavs

Damn those council house dwelling jobless scum that want to buy food or visit family. Ban them from buses! Lock them in to their filthy hovels so they can't inflict themselves on the rest of you!

I also think that there are many people, who genuinely need cars for some journeys, but then use the for all sorts of other journeys too, when they don't need to.

Dh has had to use the bus to get to work for the last few weeks. He has to get 2 buses (which don't connect properly). It takes 70 minutes in the morning and 90 at night. It takes 20 minutes to drive. If i didn't have my car, I wouldn't even be able to get a bus to work.

Agree completely. The particular nightmare on my street is the dreaded "school run". Gridlock at relevant times of day and traffic fumes being ingested by all the kids and parents waiting outside.
As it is a legal requirement that they have to live within 10–15 mins walk of the school, there is absolutely no need for this!
During summer holidays it's bliss around here.

I agree that in places like London car use needs to be restricted more than it already is. I would extend the congestion charge to all major routes in/out of the centre, as well as the north/south circular, as a start.

It's only equivalent to get a bus if it's a frequent service, not too crowded and that does a very similar route. It's only advantageous if it's cheaper or avoids parking stress or there is a bus lane that makes the journey quicker.

Speaking as someone who goes to work on the bus it tends to be the option for beggars who can't be choosers and there is little incentive to improve services.

Sort out an "adequate" public transport system that works everywhere in England/UK and you may have a point

yes, in some places it needs to improve, certainly, but in other places it is perfectly fine, yet people still drive

Clairetree1

Sort out an "adequate" public transport system that works everywhere in England/UK and you may have a point.

Agreed and that would need to include being able to get prams and wheelchairs on also having enough seats a fequant bus service

My sister gets the bus in to work she’s not been on time in 3 months so she has to leave 1 hour early just to make sure so now she often having to pay have childmider extra

I agree with you. Obviously some people are driving as they are going somewhere the bus doesn’t go, have mobility issues or are transporting a lot of stuff, and that’s fine. But let’s be honest that is a minority of people in cities. Most on the road in cities are like the selfish poster upthread who only think of their “convenience”.

Also, rural people have a point that there is no alternative, but up until cars become ubiquitous there WERE really good rail networks that extended to many corners of the country that now have no such services. The expectation that people will have cars is the problem - well, that and rail privatisation, but that’s a different post.

If there were fewer cars on the road far more people would cycle, which would be better for them and better for the planet. And better for the NHS.

also think that there are many people, who genuinely need cars for some journeys, but then use the for all sorts of other journeys too, when they don't need to.

Do you not think the cost of public transport plays a big role in that? Why would you spend a fortune for the trip to take longer when you have a car sat ready to use?

I live very very rurally and a bus is very rarely seen, if I do get one it'll cost me almost £10 return fare to do some shopping in a city so nope I'm not giving up my car

I agree with you,OP! My town is currently being all done up, and the three main roads are being closed in rotation. Everyone is complaining about the traffic jams (it's gridlock)... but nobody is using our decent public transport!

I get the bus to work ATM as DH is using my car, and there is very rarely anyone else on my bus. If there are people, they're usually OAPs. So the bus companies will eventually be forced to stop running those routes, leading to more cars (as no choice), more traffic...

I agree with you OP. Having lived and worked in London, I didn't even bother to learn to drive until my mid-30s when I moved to the suburbs.

However, I now (reluctantly) drive to work five miles away because whilst there is a bus service - timings are not perfect but are doable - it costs about £5 a day, so a minimum of £100 per month whereas fuel only costs me about £25 per month.

And I know this is me being unreasonable but a tiny part of me dies every time another 17 year old passes their test and buys a car...

I have a car because I need to get to places not served by a bus route. I could catch a bus to work very easily as it stops at the end of my road and again right outside work.

I don't because it costs a lot more. Instead I drive to the park and ride and catch exactly the same bus just 9 miles further along the route. It is free from there.