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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Aibu to think im starting to be judged for not being (lower) 'middle class' enough, and disliking it?

220 replies

Sparkles10 · 07/08/2018 00:36

I have never really thought about the idea of class much but i guess my husband and i have similar backgrounds. We both grew up in a typical 4 bed detached home, went to the local comp, did well at uni and now have relatively good jobs - not high flyers but middle & senior management type positions.

We spent quite a bit of our money travelling when in our 20s so didn't have a huge house deposit and ended up buying a modest house that we are happy with. We are also quite careful with our money and drive old cars and shop at Lidl/Aldi so we can save for our future; holidays, spends for the kids, the house etc. However we are generous with our friends & family and like spending on nice holidays.

Anyway now we are in our 30s/40s I've noticed that many of our friends are leading a different lifestyle. They drive brand new cars, shop at Waitrose, drink certain brands of coffee, shop at certain clothes outlets etc.

What is starting to bother me is that some of our friends/family have now started making quite regular comments like why don't we buy new cars (we choose to save our car allowances rather than spend them and that's apparantly not a good thing).
They also talk generally about how chavvy some of the supermarkets we shop at are and diss certain clothes brands i might buy sometimes.

Im starting to feel like they are viewing us as less successful because we choose to lead a different, less materialistic lifestyle to them. I feel a bit down about this considering that educationally and financially we have done just as well and in some cases a lot better than these friends and family members, who are in a lot of debt to fund their more lavish lifestyles. However im even annoyed at myself for these comments making me feel that i have to define doing well in those terms because i think people have no right to comment on what we drive and where we shop regardless of how much money we might or might not have.

Aibu to be annoyed by this peer pressure to conform to this so called middle class lifestyle that's propped up by so much debt, or should i just give up and spend loads a month on a new car and start drinking craft gin and decorate my home with wallpaper from Laura Ashley?!

I know that deep down our real friends couldn't care less about what we do and that i shouldn't worry about what others think but i guess I'm just a bit cheesed off.

OP posts:
Loonoon · 07/08/2018 14:08

It’s not MC to spend more money than necessary on stuff. It certainly isn’t MC to buy shockingly overpriced and environmentally unfriendly coffee pods. Your friends sound more nouveau riche than MC.

ImAIdoot · 07/08/2018 14:08

If you wanted to be classist, outward displays like "shopping at the right supermarket" etc are very common and lower-middle-class. I bet they say loo instead of toilet as well. No breeding, you see. 😂

GoldenWonderwall · 07/08/2018 14:09

I know people with more and people with less and assuming their dc are not going without to fund a minibreak obsession I could not care less what people spend their money on. It’s so quintessentially British middle class to obsess over outward indicators of money and success and to be livid that regular folk can afford Range Rovers on hp or foreign travel. Also the obsequious fawning over ‘upper class’ people with their ancient dog filled volvos and scarecrow clothes - in general this class does not give a shit about the rest of us so stop sucking up to them!

ASliceOfArcticRoll · 07/08/2018 14:22

Golden I agree.

Also generally if op is still reading, life is too short.

Seriously it is (and not wishing to be morbid but managing it just the same!) as I have passed through my 40s and hitting 50s more of my acquaintances, friends and family are developing illnesses. So on the one hand this leads me to advise to spend to have a little fun if you'll enjoy it but on the other stop caring what other people might be thinking about trivia.

Armchairanarchist · 07/08/2018 14:54

It's usually their own insecurities that cause them to find identities in material possessions. I couldn't give a toss where anyone shops, lives or what car they drive. I have a new car but one of my closest friend's car is worth £200. It's simply a workhorse she can throw the dogs and kids in and I love her for not caring.

VinoEsmeralda · 07/08/2018 15:04

Its insecurity IMO and poor taste to talk& judge like that. Who cares what your bank balance is and what size house & value cars you have.
( multi millionaire here)

My friends are great characters, some rich, some not so, but we get on and enjoy each other company.

Oh and I shop in Lidl as why pay more if you dont have to plus check out is so much faster...

flutteryleaves · 07/08/2018 19:33

spoke to dh about this thread. he thinks some people are just so desperate to prove they are able to afford "better" things.

Redrunbluerun · 07/08/2018 19:36

The people who I know who are really well off don’t talk about it. They don’t say where they shop, or mention what brands they wear... they drive average cars too!
Just be happy being you, if all shine through.

RoseWhiteTips · 07/08/2018 19:39

Laura Ashley wallpaper? Ugh? Surely no sane middle class person uses that anymore?!

RoseWhiteTips · 07/08/2018 19:45

To be fair, there hadn’t been a class thread for a while. People always bite

RoseWhiteTips · 07/08/2018 19:53

It’s misunderstood...

PowerPlayed · 08/08/2018 08:32

There's something so bloody "worthy" about these threads. The OP is practically begging posters to validate her.

No one with an ounce of interest about them cares where you shop, whether that's at Waitrose because you're a flashy in debt attention seeker™️ or Aldi because you're a prudent, alternative money saver™️ who doesn't care about labels.

NeverTwerkNaked · 08/08/2018 09:24

power Grin

dangerrabbit · 08/08/2018 09:45

Thanks OP! Love a competitive middle class bragging thread! 🍿

RoseWhiteTips · 08/08/2018 09:57

I think we need a good taste v bad taste thread very soon. Lol

bluetrampolines · 08/08/2018 10:09

This reminds me of a smart arse snob I know who was flash with his cash. He's in his 50s now and is just about to lose his house. You are right and a good example to all. Ignore them. And give it another 10 years when they are still paying off their debts. See how the land lies then.

NigellasGuest · 08/08/2018 10:15

You sound like you're doig really well! I also drive an old car but it's paid for, and my friends with newer flashier cars get them through their work or their husband's work usually, so what's better about that? Plus as they're good friends they couldn't care less about what I drive anyway. This all sounds a bit like you, and they, are feeling a bit insecure. And Laura Ashley is nothing to aspire to!

RoseWhiteTips · 08/08/2018 10:28

From Katarina Hill – Intern in Politics and International Relations

What does it actually mean to be middle class?

Since moving to the UK from Denmark I am certainly aware that I am middle class – but why? I never thought about social classes much in the 19 years I lived in the supposedly happiest country on earth (do not believe it, it is an elaborate ruse). Being English and Danish (and some other heritages but let us not get into that) I grew up with two cultural influences, however the delightfully British concept of social class never snuck into the various cultural traits I adopted from my dual nationality. Three years of living in Britain and I am suddenly painfully aware of social classes and just how middle class I apparently am. The reality of my evidently middle class habits, and how they are not feasible on an undergraduate student income – even with a decent monthly educational grant (thank you, Denmark) – hit me during my first year of university. Shopping at Waitrose on a regular basis (they may overcharge for milk, but their veg is nicer) was no longer an option, and Nescafé Gold was now a luxury rather than a cheaper-but-still-nice alternative for my morning coffee. I am good at budgeting and bargain hunting so it was not a big adjustment, and hardly something that really bothered me. Yet, some of my friends did tease me with the odd comment about just how middle class I was. My boyfriend is also quick to point out and lovingly poke fun at my middle class traits; whether it is my taste in food, the way I dress and speak, or the fact that I tell him he cannot wear an un-ironed shirt to dinner with my family. But what does it actually mean to be middle class? Does it really come down to things such as our clothes, vocabulary, and general demeanour? The dictionary definition does not help clarify things. One quick Google search of “middle class” and the first thing that appears is “the social group between the upper and working classes, including professional and business people and their families”. That honestly does not offer much of an explanation… So upon seeing a quiz from the Telegraph entitled “11 signs you’re a middle class summer cliché” which I could not access without a premium subscription (oh, the irony), I decided to put my middle-classness to the test. Literally.

I searched the internet for some class quizzes and found a large variety from websites such as Buzzfeed, the Independent, and the Telegraph. Some of the questions were almost identical for a lot of the quizzes, such as whether you say ‘pardon’ or ‘what’ if you did not hear someone, or if you call it a ‘front room’, ‘parlour’, ‘sitting room’, etc. While some tests were based on vocabulary, others such as the Buzzfeed quiz, focused on slightly different traits. For one question, I was asked to “pick a Jennifer Lawrence”, and was presented with various pictures of the lovely actress with short descriptions of the moods she apparently displayed in each shot. I picked “just getting on with life Jennifer Lawrence” along with the Daily Mail as the paper that makes me angriest. The results of my answers to the various quizzes included “Not middle class at all”, “Just plain old sort-of middle class”, “Elite, if you eat more canapés”, and “You’re the bloody queen aren’t you?”. So that internet venture did not aid my quest to find what truly makes you middle class one bit.

I assume that most of us can agree on a few things that determine whether you are middle class. Financial capital for example; your job and income is probably one of the most defining factors of your social class. But what happens when you throw social capital into the mix? Who you know, what you know, and where you learned what you know seems to be even more defining than just your job and salary. The area you went to school in, and even more importantly which school you attended can quickly send you from lower to middle, or middle to upper class. Except these characteristics can then become contradictory. You do not have to come from a certain area or level of income to attend inherently middle and upper class institutions such as Oxford or Cambridge University. It certainly helps if you do, but it is not a prerequisite (they need to meet their quotas, and Eton simply does not represent all demographics). Coming back to the dictionary definition of ‘middle class’ stating that it includes “professional and business people and their families”. ‘Professional’ does not say much in terms of social class. Generally, if you are paid to carry out something you are a professional at that specific thing – it is your profession, you are a professional. But I doubt very many people would look at a professional builder and think he is middle class. So ‘professional’ is honestly a bit of a grey area. Further, to include the families of these professional and business people, is somewhat of an assumption as well. Just because your parents are middle class does not necessarily mean that you are. It may often be the case that people are, but I also know plenty of people who come from rather well off and very middle class families, yet they see themselves as working class – or vice versa. As the picture so eloquently illustrates, if you are middle class you are somewhere in the middle between rich and poor. Except these days middle class seems to mean upper class, and upper class means you own a lot of horses and go fox hunting. ‘Upper class’ is almost a filthy term now, which is why I think some people say middle class when really we mean upper – they do not want to admit that they are wealthy.

So really all I can seem to make sense of is that the middle class is in the middle. What your definition of that middle is may completely differ from mine. I do agree that although I do not have a substantial annual income, and I sometimes live in my overdraft for months at a time, I am middle class. I also have some preferences and habits that when I compare them to others, sometimes seem hilariously posh (my pinky occasionally pops up when I have a pint – who does that??). It does seem, however, that in the current financial and social climate in the UK it may be along while before we truly discover exactly what makes one middle class.

RoseWhiteTips · 08/08/2018 10:28

An interesting read!

Twistella · 08/08/2018 10:31

Like previous posters I can't believe people comment on this or that you care.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 08/08/2018 10:34

this is such bollocks. Anyone who thinks that shopping at lidl or aldi is 'chavvy' is plain stupid.
And I am sorry, Mrs Danish person, but 'Nescafe Gold' is hardly drinkable, like all instant coffee. It's hardly a class marker, is it.

ASliceOfArcticRoll · 08/08/2018 10:38

Yes half Danish lady was the least interesting cultural commentary ever. On the level of a mate who did Jackie questionnaires back in the day.

FoxInABox · 08/08/2018 10:40

I can understand why this is getting to you- I think if it’s said once you can brush it off but when it is regularly said, it starts to become more of an issue and plays on your mind. I have the same but in the opposite direction- we are both from working class families, and would still consider ourselves working class, don’t live in the best area or best house, but my husband has done well in work and we do have nice holidays and a fairly okay car (not brand new but a couple years old). We don’t buy expensive clothes but we do prioritise experiences. Both of our families act as though we are super rich, even though we still live month to month. My family makes comments about me being a SAHM, they don’t mention our holidays and don’t get excited for the kids, and expect us to pay for everything. It hurts and played on my mind for a long time, now I just don’t react to their comments in any way, I literally just don’t answer them now when they say these things and they are slowly decreasing in frequency.

ASliceOfArcticRoll · 08/08/2018 10:42

Ah Fox that would get to me too.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/08/2018 11:01

gosh how ghastly for you op your friends are so nouveau riche

Isn’t that the purpose of this thread Confused