To think you can’t have it both ways regarding sex?

[GinDaddy]

(Before anyone starts with the obvious gag, I don’t mean sexual practices...)

A few friends of mine (M and F) were this weekend chatting about loss of sexual interest in a long term partner, and what causes this to happen.

It made me think of numerous convos and threads both on MN and elsewhere where people have said “I can’t stand the idea of sex anymore, I’d much rather watch a box set and have a biscuit” etc, or “Who wants all that huffing and puffing, I won’t let DH anyway near me” etc

Yet there are also plenty of threads and common discussions out there bemoaning and slating people (often men) for moving on from a long term relationship due to a lack of physical love or sex.

AIBU to think the two are connected?

Am I being unreasonable to wonder whether the people who prefer to have a biscuit, cuppa and soap, are also unrealistic to that their partner may want exactly the same? And therefore don’t really have the right to sound off in a blinkered fashion if the inevitable happens?

Relationship betrayal and cheating is wrong. 100%. However if someone basically says “I’m done with physical love, and I’m not going to ask you whether you feel the same”, AIBU to think this places some relationships into potential risk?

**Disclaimer:

1. This clearly does not apply to couples where one partner has suffered serious mental or physical illness. Or where both have tacitly or otherwise agreed to a non-physical relationship

2. I understand raising children can be a huge contributing factor to loss of desire for some, but that’s not for everyone

3. this is not my situation, so I’m not going to either add personal anecdote or take personal abuse

Thing is, a lot of these men did marry prim little virgins with weird ideas about sex. There's a degree of culpability.

To walk away from an otherwise happy marriage and to possibly destroy your own child's childhood (for some children, their parents splitting up is massive and affects them long term), because you aren't getting the quantity of sex you want, seems pretty pathetic
It's not pathetic at all.

Before leaving a relationship, I would imagine partner A tries to talk to partner B and work through things. However, if Partner B is of the view 'I just don't want sex and that's how this relationship is going to be' then it's entirely understandable that A may end up unhappy in the relationship and want to move on.

One person doesn't get to make the other miserable indefinitely. The relationship is a partnership and if one party thinks they should hold all the cards and dictate the terms of the relationship then they can't be surprised if their partner leaves

I think it's no surprise that it's often the woman that goes off sex, not always but often. Pregnancy and childbirth have a toll on the body, then there's breastfeeding, tiredness, being touched out. Even when the DC are a little older or even grown up we have fluctuating hormones and constant pressure from society and the media to look good. If the baby weight doesn't shift it can feel very difficult to feel sexy, and as we get older many of our dps are beginning to suffer a bit from Ed and may need more visual stimulation, just at a time when we want to cover up! That's a generalisation just based on my observations. I was reading recently about a guy in his 30s, fit, goes to the gym, and he was complaining that his wife's sex drive wasn't as high as his. She was willing, but she didn't initiate and wasn't as adventurous as he would like. They had 3 young children! Basically nothing has changed for him, whereas her body is in recovery mode. I think sometimes men just don't have a clue.

But it is also true that for some women (like me) that state is temporary and after the first shell shocked phase is over, be it however many months, things gradually resume.

But for some it seems to be permanent. And to have the state of your marriage change from an intimate one to a non-intimate one permanently at that age must be pretty traumatic when you weren't expecting it.

Funnily enough, the marriage I know that suffered worst was when the DH stopped sleeping with DW. She'd had cancer ops and was quite scarred so you can imagine how great she felt.

There's a huge amount of double think around this. On one hand, sex is so meaningless and unimportant that you can reasonably expect your partner to forego it for the rest of their lives. Whilst on the other, it's such a huge and important thing that should your partner have sex with someone else, it's grounds to break up a marriage and potentially a family.

Yes. This.

I would absolutely leave my husband if he decided he didn’t want sex anymore and I’m sure he would too. Not that I’ve ever said no to him!

I think the issue isn't even so much the lack of sex (and believe me I like it), as much as the complete apathy about how the other person feels about it. If my husband went off sex (unlikely), I think I could cope if he acknowledged my feelings, tried to make good, made some sort of effort to show that he did understand my feelings and cared and was trying to do something about it. If he just expected me to live like that and didn't give a shit, that would probably be the end.

If you don't care that someone's unhappy, you don't love them.

I think we still don't talk about female sexual pleasure enough. Its not even a question of telling their sex partner what they want. Often women don't even know what they want/like because they've squashed their sexual desire under your partner's. Not necessarily blaming the partners for that but the cultural secrecy around women's sexuality. By the time women have reached an age where they can be honest about what they want, that's kind of 'get off me'.

I'm not really talking about myself here I can just really see how this would happen.

I agree. Men who are bad in bed must be the number one real reason for divorce.

There’s so many factors to this.

Personally I was shocked by the extent to which my fairly minor birth injuries have lingered on. My scar from my first child took over a year to settle in and not cause pain any more, then each subsequent child, even though my recovery in all other respects was easier and quicker, the sex problems lingered on. Youngest is over a year now and sex is still tricky.

Luckily I have a great DH and we talk a lot and communicate openly about stuff. A couple of nights ago I had to stop having sex, move position / stretch / put a finger in and jiggle it about (not in a sexy way haha!) about....oooh ten times. Thankfully we were both really up for it and it didn’t affect his erection. But if we didn’t communicate well or I thought sex was a ‘grin and bear it’ thing then wow I imagine I would have been in a lot of pain.

I think a lot of the time men start pestering for sex too soon after birth, or aren’t understanding enough about birth injuries. The woman generally goes along with it when the kids are small, causing pain and resentment, and then that builds to the point where she just loses all desire for him. Then the kids get a bit older, she’s less knackered etc and suddenly thinks what the fuck - NO. And I don’t blame the woman in the slightest when that happens.

Some random thoughts based on 15years' personal.experience.

For many people sex forms an extremely important part of their emotional well-being. If you commit to spending the whole of the rest of your life with somebody and you expect them to commit to spending the whole of the rest of their life with you then you need to take a real interest in that person's emotiobal well-being.

Just saying he/she will just have "to do without" is cruel.

If you say to your partner that "for the whole of the rest of your life your sexual fulfillment is none of my business" don't be surprised if they decided that their sexual fulfillment is none of your business.

Surely if a person has to leave a marriage it should be the person who instigates the sexless marriage-they're the person who has brought the marriage to an end?

In the traditional vows, there is the one about forsaking all others, but there is also the one about having and holding, loving and cherishing. Either can be broken.

Of course nobody should be forced to have sex with someone if they don't want to. But excepting illness, disability etc, if you no longer want to - and, more importantly, do not care that you don't want to, nor how this will make your partner feel - then no, I can't understand why you'd care if your partner left or went elsewhere. To paraphrase a PP, either sex is such a big deal that you need to care if it goes out the window and try to do SOMETHING, or it's utterly unimportant in which case it shouldn't matter if your partner goes elsewhere after you effectively shut them out.

I do have a theory that anyone who says sex isn't a big deal is doing it wrong, but there's no judgment. I did it wrong for years.

Sex seems to be one of those things its really hard to empathise about. Those who can take it or leave it, can't understand why it's so important to others; and those who find it really important can't understand that for others it's meaningless.

Those who can take it or leave it, can't understand why it's so important to others; and those who find it really important can't understand that for others it's meaningless.

Which is fine, but the problem comes when one or both people in a couple can't be consistent about it. If it's truly meaningless, it shouldn't matter in the slightest if your partner seeks it elsewhere.

Depends on the couple. Me and my partner agreed a long time ago sex wasn't the most important thing for our relationship and whether we have it once a week or once every 2 months we are ok with that. Lots of other ways to be intimate. Gestures, kisses, cuddles, rubs, etc! I'm glad we see it the same way too as I know it could really affect someone else's relationship ( people with higher sex drives)

I'm struggling with this at the moment and have been for a couple of years. I don't want it, I occasionally make myself and unlike a lot of other posters I don't get into it when we do. It's a combination of a lot of factors (physical pain both from the birth of dd2 even though she is a toddler now and from a couple of chronic illnesses, and mental after a second trimester miscarriage which I almost didn't survive and from an assault when I was a teenager and previous abusive relationship) but it's harder and harder to disguise. Otherwise I do love dh and don't want to end things so occasionally I have to endure it. He isn't the type to go elsewhere with no strings so I haven't got a choice, doesn't stop the tears when he falls asleep though.

Bloody hell loyaultie.

@Loyaultemelie so sorry I got turned off sex by the age of 18 after I ruined it by having sex with older men allowing myself to be taken advantage , ever since I don't like sex and feel awkward about it, never get turned on really and have never had that 'fun, naughty' feeling in a relationship, lucky for me my dh doesn't mind this

Personally I was shocked by the extent to which my fairly minor birth injuries have lingered on.

This!

I had a high sex drive and loved sex pre-baby. Now have a shed tonne of scar tissue, prolapse, weak/avulsed pelvic floor muscles and nerve damage resulting in vaginal numbness. Sex feels like nothing and makes me cry about what I’ve lost and because try as I might to be reasonable I am so fucking envious of my husband’s undamaged, functional genitals and his ability to enjoy them, and because I feel shit that I can’t match his enjoyment and join in anymore. It’s 11 months since my birth and I’m still numb - the best I can say is it’s no longer painful. I can now have weak clitoral orgasms but again, the constrast with what I’d been used to makes me sad and hopeless.

So I dunno really - on a general level I think the mismatched desire thing can be really complicated, and sad. On a personal level I’d be glad of any advice (especially ‘that happened to me and it did get better’!!)

Very very rarely do you hear of someone telling their partner that they will be looking for sex or affection elsewhere because they aren't getting it in their primary relationship. There's a reason it comes as a surprise.

Maybe you can't expect your partner to stay if they aren't happy (with no sex), but you damn well should be able to expect them to be discussing it with you before looking elsewhere. Maybe there is a legitimate reason, in which case they need to work on it too, or maybe the non sexual partner doesn't realise the other isn't happy. Sexual relations rarely cease overnight for no good reason.
Your q is too simplistic, and doesn't take into account circumstances. It's no coincidence that typical danger periods for a man to start an affair are when the woman is pregnant or has a baby. So is it unreasonable that she's not wanting sex when she's struggling physically, hormonally, mentally? Should she expect her partner (who has been affected much less by the pregnany/birth/associated issues in looking after children) to go off and have sex with someone else because she's exhausted/recovering from physical injury etc?
So while YANBU with:
However if someone basically says “I’m done with physical love, and I’m not going to ask you whether you feel the same”, AIBU to think this places some relationships into potential risk?
I think it very rarely happens like that. If at all.

Just caught up with the posts on birth damage, totally agree. I'm still affected ten years later, I'm sure this is much more of a contributory factor in female sexual 'disinterest' than people consider (unless they have suffered themselves). And of course it's unlikely men would consider it such an influential factor, not experiencing it or even being aware of the issues in a lot of cases.

Maybe you can't expect your partner to stay if they aren't happy (with no sex), but you damn well should be able to expect them to be discussing it with you before looking elsewhere
This. ^^
With communication the partner who has a higher libido can start to understand where the lower libido person is coming from. They may find that they arent sure whether to show lower libido partner that they are still sexually attracted to them or not because of how it could be recieved; they may be taking it as a reflection on how their partner feels about them. Communication is key.

Someone walking out because they've not had sex in a few months and baby is 6 months old is a dickhead.

Someone leaving a relationship because their partner hasn't been up for sex for years and when it does happen it's awkward and when they try to talk about their relationship and sex life they are met with a wall and the message seems to be 'I just don't want it anymore and that's how it's going to be from now on' is entirely justified in saying they are ending the relationship as they are no longer compatible.

Verbena yours sounds worse than mine but I will say that for me the turning point was around 18m to 2 years post birth.

I think the first time we managed truly relaxed sex (without having to think of positioning, gentleness, etc etc) was about two years post birth for the first two.

Over a year with this third one and it’s possible for sex to be pleasurable but still hugely constrained to two ‘safe’ positions and we both have to be conscious of not getting too vigorous.

I’ve heard from a few people that it commonly takes two years.

Years ago my first real boyfriend split up with me and I found my now DH pretty soon after. Anyway, shortly thereafter, I had lunch with ex- and he happily recanted a story about a new woman wanting loads of sex and how he'd rather have a cup of tea...it was hysterical as he must have been 22 at the time.

I've always been friends with blokes but sometimes, TMI!