To think you can’t have it both ways regarding sex?

[GinDaddy]

(Before anyone starts with the obvious gag, I don’t mean sexual practices...)

A few friends of mine (M and F) were this weekend chatting about loss of sexual interest in a long term partner, and what causes this to happen.

It made me think of numerous convos and threads both on MN and elsewhere where people have said “I can’t stand the idea of sex anymore, I’d much rather watch a box set and have a biscuit” etc, or “Who wants all that huffing and puffing, I won’t let DH anyway near me” etc

Yet there are also plenty of threads and common discussions out there bemoaning and slating people (often men) for moving on from a long term relationship due to a lack of physical love or sex.

AIBU to think the two are connected?

Am I being unreasonable to wonder whether the people who prefer to have a biscuit, cuppa and soap, are also unrealistic to that their partner may want exactly the same? And therefore don’t really have the right to sound off in a blinkered fashion if the inevitable happens?

Relationship betrayal and cheating is wrong. 100%. However if someone basically says “I’m done with physical love, and I’m not going to ask you whether you feel the same”, AIBU to think this places some relationships into potential risk?

**Disclaimer:

1. This clearly does not apply to couples where one partner has suffered serious mental or physical illness. Or where both have tacitly or otherwise agreed to a non-physical relationship
   
   
2. I understand raising children can be a huge contributing factor to loss of desire for some, but that’s not for everyone
   
   
3. this is not my situation, so I’m not going to either add personal anecdote or take personal abuse

[Verbena87]

batteries thanks so much for responding, that’s really good to hear. I know nerves can continue to regrow for 2 years so that kind of makes sense.

I’ll keep plodding on and doing my physio and hope for the best!

[SemperIdem]

I do think sex, or at least sexual intimacy of some kind, is very important in romantic relationships.

It is what what sets them apart from other types of relationship.

With both my current and previous partner, I have had the higher sex drive both pre and post post baby. It is far less problematic in my current relationship than in my previous one. In part because I feel much more able to openly talk about it.

From my female friends, I understand I am not alone. We don’t discuss the ins and outs of each other’s sex lives by any means but the general consensus is that “men want sex more than women” is a borderline myth.

Ultimately I think - if you are happy to commit to having sex with one person, long term, then you should also be happy to talk openly about each other’s needs.

[Squidgee]

its one reason I left my ExH.

His drive was much higher than mine, to the point he constantly harassed me, groped me, woke me up by sticking his hands down my pyjamas, trying to undress me in my sleep..etc

I told him so many times that his constant harassment put me off because I constantly felt pressured. initiating just led to more and more harassment.

He didn't respect me enough as a person to even give me chance to try and discover if my sex drive could recover, his dick was more important.

[Lunaij]

I think sex is like many other parts of long term relationships and needs effort and maintenance.

I never feel pressured into sex anymore than I feel pressured into giving a foot rub but I will make the effort to have it sometimes even if I’m not really feeling it. We’ve been together 17 years and I’m 3months postpartum so it’s a once a week if at all occasion right now. Dh would like a lot more but is patient atm but I wouldn’t expect that to last forever. Self image and tiredness are such a libido killer.

What I would never worry about and also never forgive would be an affair. We’ve remained fairthful to each other always and I’d rather leave (or be left) than go down that road.

[bourbonbiccy]

Obviously love and sex are two different things. There have been times when I have had sex with my hubby when not 100% in the mood,( barely 5% in the mood) because I love him and know that is what would make him happy, so on occasions I have said no tonight love and others I enthusiastically carry on for him. I'm sure there have been times he hasn't wanted to do things for me, but has done them to make me happy. That's give and take (no pun intended ). And there have been times, a lot of time, when he isn't in the mood.
I do believe though, if he wanted sex and I just kept saying no, he then has the right to say I am no longer full filing his needs so we need to separate if I'm not willing to compromise. And visa a versa

One person should never hold all the power of any aspect of a relationship I have heard women say they are going to withhold sex as their hubby has annoyed them, or put him on a ban because he did something they didn't like it.i also know lots of men who have lost i interest and it's the women with higher sex drives,.
It's a n aged stereotype that it's the men demanding sex and the women have gone off it, it's quite offensive to both men and women.
Cheating is a no no but ending a relations because your partner is unwilling to meet your needs is a different kettle of fish

[Copperbonnet]

To walk away from an otherwise happy marriage and to possibly destroy your own child's childhood (for some children, their parents splitting up is massive and affects them long term), because you aren't getting the quantity of sex you want, seems pretty pathetic.

I suspect Arethere that the point us often that the marriage isn’t “otherwise happy”.

The couples who DH and I know IRL where the husband or wife has indicated mismatched sex drives sex are also those who partners have mentioned quite separately other problems in their relationships.

Happy couples work through their problems together.

[ShamelesslyPlacemarking]

Honestly, I think that a lot of women are socialised to act like they enjoy sex much more than they actually do, and once they get past childbearing and have the additional responsibilities/issues of parenting + work, post-birth bodies, tiredness etc, they realise they can't really be bothered pretending anymore.

When I say women don't enjoy sex as much as they pretend to, that's not to say that they don't enjoy good sex. It's just that good sex is not that common. Many men prioritise their own pleasure over their partner's, and many women are socialised to also prioritise men's pleasure over their own. So the women fake orgasms or go without (read up on the orgasm gap), because they haven't had enough foreplay, or it's taking a long time and they're embarrassed, or they've unsuccessfully tried to 'coach' the man about what they do or don't like, or the man finishes first and just rolls off and they're embarrassed to say "Hey, what about me" etc.

Over time the dynamic becomes ingrained that the man's pleasure is important and theirs is not so much. And eventually, with a whole lot of other pressures competing for their energy, delicately negotiating a conversation about their sexual dissatisfaction without damaging their husband's ego can become just another chore on the woman's endless to-do list.

That's when the cost:benefit ratio of performing the emotional and physical labour of a sex life starts to swing in favour of cups of tea and Corrie on the couch.

[Ventiamore]

Happy couples work through their problems together.
Not true, as there are statistics to show that some ppl in otherwise happy marriages have affairs/cheat, given the opportunity.

[NotAgainYoda]

I agree with Love51

Who is right and who is wrong is not the issue. It's about communication, negotiation and understanding. And then making choices that do not hurt the other person.

[FurryDice]

if you deny them sex for years?

Surely part of the problem is the idea that people are entitled to sex when they’re in a relationship, perhaps as a hangover from the concept of conjugal rights? Why else do we discuss this as ‘denying’ someone sex?

I think the concept itself is outdated and part of the problem.

[RoadToRivendell]

I think that, for a lot of women, having children brings to the fore the previously latent sexist tendencies that their husbands might have, and they can't un-know it, and it's a huge intimacy killer.

Took me years to get my sex drive back.

[RoadToRivendell]

Surely part of the problem is the idea that people are entitled to sex when they’re in a relationship, perhaps as a hangover from the concept of conjugal rights? Why else do we discuss this as ‘denying’ someone sex?

It's reasonable to expect that someone would want to continue to have sex with you if you enter into an exclusive relationship, surely.

[FurryDice]

I don’t think it is, necessarily. It still perceives that sex is a ‘right’

[FurryDice]

By the way, I’m not saying sex isn’t a lovely, mutually beneficial part of a relationship. But the terms in which we discuss it presuppose it as a right.

It’s not a right. It’s something to be decided and acted upon if wanted.

[Notmany]

FurryDice I think you are getting side tracked by thinking that this is some sort of sexual consent issue. This isn't about consent it is about being happy in a relationship.

Of course everyone has the absolute right to refuse to consent to any sort of sexual activity at any point. However if that is the permanent and unilateral withdrawal of all sexual activity with a long time romantic partner it is surely unreasonable to demand that partner be happy and wish to stay in that relationship? In some cases I would even say that behaviour is abusive.

You have every right to stop having sex with someone, however you don't have the right to control their feelings or force them to stay in a relationship where they are unhappy.

[StickyProblem]

Brilliant post shamelesslyplacemarking

[FurryDice]

@Notmany, I’d still suggest you look at the language you’re using without even thinking about it. ‘Denying’ presupposes something that’s a right and it’s being denied.

‘Demand’ presupposes some kind of right to request forcefully.

I don’t think I’m at all getting sidetracked as you suggest; I’m questioning the language in which we discuss sexual union within a marriage and how that language dictates how we perceive supposedly consensual sex

[JudgeRulesNutterButter]

Verbena I was going to say the same- my birth injuries post DC1 were relatively minor and it still took over a year (and stopping bf) before I got my mojo back. I’d had various scans etc at the gp because it was all still so painful but they hadn’t got round to doing anything before my body improved of its own accord. Time (and lube!!!!) can work wonders. Fingers crossed for you

[MistressDeeCee]

If 1 person really doesn't want sex and is disinterested in exploring/getting help around this then it's not on to reject the partner sexually expecting that they should end their sex life on your say so, yet you want to stay in the relationship for the sake of the kids/finances/home comforts aka 'Im not leaving what I know after all these years, it's too comfortable, and easier than going it alone'

Sex is part of intimacy. If you know you no longer want sex that's fine, but have the guts to end the relationship. Withholding sex and expecting your partner must not seek it elsewhere isn't right

Maybe some couples reach the stage where they would both prefer a cup of tea in which case everyone is happy

Both on same page about sex is fine.

[MaisyPops]

Surely part of the problem is the idea that people areentitledto sex when they’re in a relationship, perhaps as a hangover from the concept of conjugal rights? Why else do we discuss this as ‘denying’ someone sex?
It's not a right as such but it is a fairly significant part of a romantic relationship and unilaterally pulling it off the table and deciding that's it on sex is changing the terms of the relationship. It would be unreasonable to expect the partner to passively go along with it and not feel resentful or unhappy.

[Verbena87]

judge thanks for the reassurance: I’m really down about it at the mo so just knowing I’m not alone and it can improve is a real help. I am still feeding so that might be part of it too.

It’s tough because my sex drive is alive and well, but the reality of sex with my current body just doesn’t match the sex I want/need, so I tend not to initiate as I know I’ll end up disappointed in my body and frustrated and sad.

[ElspethFlashman]

They're not entitled to sex but they're certainly entitled to expect their marriage to be a sexual one going forward, whatever frequency that means.

It's not unreasonable to expect your marriage to be sexual. That's what we sign up for. That's the deal. It's an intimate partnership.

Nobody is a bad guy for expecting or wanting their marriage to be sexual. They may be a bad guy for insisting it's sexual RIGHT NOW, but not if its a general expectation for the future.

I remember one very sad post on boards.ie a few years ago by a guy who was worried that his wife never wanted sex. It emerged that they had never had sex at all. First, she was saving herself for marriage as she was a virgin, then they tried twice on honeymoon and it was uncomfortable so she stopped it, and he was very understanding, then she kept putting off trying again when they came home, and now 4 years had passed and every 6 months he raised it and she went "yes, we really must. Soon". Would not talk about it more, would not go to counselling, so he came onto a forum to ask what he should do. He said he was starting to become cranky and short with her, starting to spend a lot of time in the gym lifting the hardest weights he could find, he was worried he was becoming resentful and cross. She was his best friend.

I don't think he was prepared for the onslaught of "WTF??! LTB!!" and he never came back. He honestly thought he was being unreasonable in getting frustrated. But as people pointed out, marriage is based on the concept of intimate love, and he had a right to expect sex in it. And if he had been mislead, then it wasn't a marriage at all.

[lightonthewater]

Elspeth, I don't know if you have read On Chesil Beach, but it's about that sort of scenario. I am sure that in the days when the woman was a virgin or both were virgins, the situation you describe was incredibly common. Women knew nothing about sex and were conditioned to think it was 'dirty'. That can't have been a recipe for sexual happiness for either partner. Both partners probably had no idea about female sexuality. If the man had sexual experience it was probably through prostitutes.

I would love to write a book on this, and wonder why it's never been done to my knowledge. Would love to interview women who married pre 1960's to collate their experiences. Men too of course.

My grandmother had an awful labour with her first child and ended up having a section in the 1930's. Her only other child was born 12 years later and again she had a section. I imagine they just didn't have sex the rest of the time as she probably dreaded getting pregnant. They had a very unhappy marriage.

OH grandmother hated sex, yet she had four children. Her husband subjected her to emotional and probably domestic abuse as a result of trauma during the war. She divorced him for cruelty in the 1920's.

So much misunderstanding and unhappiness I imagine and so little possibility to end the marriage if it wasn't working.

[IDontEatFriedTurtle]

Good post from ShamelesslyPlacemarking

Previous posters are saying birth injury is likely to be the cause of many sexual droughts. If we put aside the feminist issue that birth injuries are largely ignored for a second by the medical profession for just a second.... I think it is important to acknowledge that "PIV" is not the gold standard of sex or the only kind of sex and that I know a lot of really happy lesbians who have never have a thing up their vagina. The problem is that straight couples have been conditioned to see a dick in a vagina or arse as of late as the only kind of proper sex. Everything else is just foreplay.

Unless any kind of physical touch hurts there is no reason why you can't be having great sex while still recovering from child birth. If a man can't be bothered to give you oral because you won't be taking his dick later due to injury. The problem there isn't sex, it's selfishness.

[FranticallyPeaceful]

Didn’t have sex with my partner for over a year (pregnancy and birth etc) and honestly would be absolutely gutted if he had cheated on me, and yes I’d judge the hell out of him. It sounds AWFUL but he just repulsed me at the time, sex in general did. I don’t know why it never happened in previous pregnancies... But I knew it was hormones because I remember when they shifted I remembered how much I loved him and want to be close to him. I missed him so much... but for that year? I’d have rather bathed in sludge. Didn’t want it , didn’t even want to be in the same room as him most of the time .
If it was a long term thing then I’d expect him to break up with me, but not cheat on me. I’d be gutted but I’d understand - you can’t force somebody to want sex and can’t force somebody to not want it either. I’m not too bothered about sex personally but do like being close, and sex is a good way to be close