...to think that if you repeatedly get your cock out in public (allegedly) you aren't fit to offer advice to government about whether women-only facilities should become mixed-sex?

[ArcheryAnnie]

OK, I know IABU in offering a Daily Fail link, but the Guardian haven't yet covered this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6003331/Britains-official-transgender-student-officer-suspended.html

Jess Bradley was one of the very limited number of people invited to give evidence to Maria Miller's Women and Equalities Select Committee investigation, which kicked off the current proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act so that anyone who says they are a woman is legally regarded as a woman, even if they still have a penis (and a beard and anything else they like - saying "I am a woman" would literally be the only requirement). These proposed changes in the law would mean the end of women-only services and de facto mean all services, including hospital wards, changing rooms, etc, would become mixed-sex.

Jess Bradley was also until very recently a director of Action for Trans Health, an activist group whose list of batshit demands includes the immediate release of all trans prisoners.

AIBU to think that everyone in government and beyond (including the NHS) who took advice from this individual should now reassess the value of that advice?

There are just women, and then there are (usually gay) men who want to be women, and (usually straight) men who pretend to want to be women as part of a fetish or power game

Setting aside the straight (often middle-aged) men with autogynephilia, we really should acknowledge that there are men (and women) with bodily dysphoria. I know at least one person, who self-describes as 'trans' and whom I have heard say - in public - that they would rather they did not have the genitalia they were born with. And this person is in their twenties, who still presents in their natal sex - so it's not a "rapid onset" situation, nor the kind of situation of someone like Bradley (who presents like an aggressive gay man).

My knowledge of this person suggests to me that they find their situation hugely distressing, and a clear case of dysphoria. Although it goes along with a mental illness (a personality disorder - I think this would be categorised as a mental illness?). Whatever combination of therapy and medical intervention this person needs should be offered - although I'd say therapy is paramount (and quite urgent, really).

So we can't dismiss all trans people - there is a genuine need for therapy and even SRS - what concerns me is the huge increase in trans identification, and its weaponising against women.

I have seen countless transwomen refer to their penises as "lady penises" and state that a penis can be female, because they identify as female, and therefore their penis must be female

The monkeys are running the asylum!

The NUS paid this perv to be a representative of a vulnerable cohort of young adults, whilst they photographed their genitals at work and blogged about rape and incest.

I would like to see this type of thread in Staffroom as well AIBU.
The more Head teachers and teachers who read this, the better.

They need to know the types of people they're taking advice from and that this is a MASSIVE safeguarding issue.

What concerns me is the huge increase in trans identification, and its weaponizing against women.

This, x

what concerns me is how few people know about this and about the current consultation.

mrnohips

Please do post in staffroom - everyone who is potentially trained by such interests should be aware of this.

So we can't dismiss all trans people - there is a genuine need for therapy and even SRS - what concerns me is the huge increase in trans identification, and its weaponising against women.

I don’t dismiss all trans people - sorry, I should have been clearer. I am totally fine with the traditional body dysphoria type, and I get that they’re experiencing something really hard. Nonetheless, they are still men who want to be women, not some sub-category of women. That was my point.

they are still men who want to be women, not some sub-category of women
Ah, I see @SlothSlothSloth - that's clearer. And a really good way to think about it.

Although, I'm not sure all body dysphoric men (or women) are gay; but it is very clear that current models of masculinity are constraining and unhealthy for some (many/most?? ) men.

Of the transwomen I know, I wouldn't call them women - but they're not men either.

It's tricky, I think. I do understand the painfulness that bodily dysphoric men and women feel about these kinds of discussions. They're often shut down elsewhere (eg on an academic women's support discussion group I belong to) because there's the sense that we are "debating transwomen's right to exist."

I can see how this discussion might feel like that: I have two responses a) welcome to the world of being a woman (ie gender role of "woman") - we are always talked about by others; or more seriously b) I'm not actually that interested in transwomen, but I am interested in the rights of women, freeing women from restrictive and oppressive gender roles, and keeping women safe.

If we need to talk about the potential for the identification of 'trans' to enable people who are intent on harming women, oppressing them, or forcing them into patriarchal gender roles, then I will have to talk about transwomen. Just as I'll have to talk about men - all men are potential rapists. Only men are rapists.

"debating transwomen's right to exist."

This is what activists say to shut women up.

I'm not debating trans people exist. Of course they do! And they have every right to not just exist, but thrive and life full and happy lives.

They don't though have the right to appropriate women's rights, or LGB rights, or language, or legislate on feelings, or call transphobia when biology is discussed.

They need to campaign for TRANS RIGHTS. Not elimination or appropriation of women's rights.

There may be some overlap, but in the majority of cases there is not. Trans people have different rights and needs to women and girls, for the most part.

Validation aside, what else is gained for them by saying people can change sex? It makes a mockery of funding for services for trans people, for a start. Funding which is desperately needed, we are told, because of the high rate of suicidal ideation.

What they are asking for, by denying women's rights to free speech and a sex category distinct from them, will end up in eroding their own cause too. It's madness all round.

Agree with NoSquirrels - the arguments hurt trans people too.
I also saw a point raised today on twitter - about how threats of high suicide rates and worsening mental health issues are being used as a form of coercive control against people who want to debate these issues, and very worryingly promoting suicide ideation in young people ('if you're a young person who isn't allowed to use the toilets you want to, then you're probably thinking about committing suicide, aren't you?).

They need to campaign for TRANS RIGHTS

I'm really not clear what these are? Apologies as I'm sure this will have been done time and time again and the Mumsnet discussion is way beyond that topic now... but for the rest of us who are still trying to get our head round this, what can you not do if you are trans that everyone else can do?

I think that trans rights might be an emphasis on trans people having normal human rights: not to be abused, or discriminated against because they're trans. No more or no less.

And a good thing too - we know there's discrimination & prejudice against trans people. But that does not mean that they should have more rights than women, or that trans rights should diminish women's rights.

So just plain old human rights, then. Like the rest of us humans.
If only they listened to the women’s right not to be abused with anything like the same attention ...

Lynne1Cat Mon 30-Jul-18 13:03:31

I'm sick of all this politically-correct bollocks. The person in the article is a MAN. The person has MALE genitalia, not female. No matter what name/clothing/attitude the person has, the correct terminology is man, male, he, him, his.

I agree, he's a man, as am I. Unlike him, I have never felt the need to parade my dick in public, nor have I felt the need to post paedophilic memes to Tumblr. Then again, I've never pretended to be a woman either.

Threats of high suicide rates and worsening mental health issues are being used as a form of coercive control against people who want to debate these issues, and very worryingly promoting suicide ideation in young people ('if you're a young person who isn't allowed to use the toilets you want to, then you're probably thinking about committing suicide, aren't you?)

So, so wrong.

I'm also very dubious about all the

"Trans People fear for their safety" claims.

They think if they repeat it enough times, people will start to think it's true - usually without questioning whether there are any real figures to prove whether it.

They rule through fear.

...... whether it's true.

I had to laugh at a thread on Twitter where a trans person advertised "her" crowdfunder. The money was to be used to get taxis home. "She" finished with the words along the lines of "you can't even imagine how terrifying it can be to walk and use public transport - the comments, the looks etc.

A chorus of voices replied, one after another: "We don't have to use our imaginations. We're women".

Slothslothsloth is that the lovely Lily Madigan next to Jess in the pic? Wonder if there's been any talk of the incident on Lily's eloquent Twitter account..

Indeed it is, pachyderm! And no, doesn’t look like she’s mentioned it. Surprise, surprise.

Hands up here who has circulated pictures of Ben 10 being raped?

No?

Hands up here who thinks that someone who would circulate pictures of Ben 10 being raped is someone whose judgement we would trust in matters of child protection?

No?

Thought not

sloth they are however claiming that 70 percent commit suicide when they can't use the loo..

Do as I say or i will kill myself.. let's just ask women where they have heard that before..

Ah, who could forget "Savile's apprentice" at rape.com with pretend blowjob photo....what a lovely pair of young ladies. Just takes me back to the fun I had in my 20s, making jokes about rape and waving my cock around the office...

I could use transwomen and non-transwomen but this is clumsy and still likely to offend

Yes, it is likely to offend, as you are being offensive.

Women and transwomen. See how easy that is? Language is fantastic like that, allowing us to easily delineate and give names to very different things. Women, and transwomen. Entirely descriptive, accurate, and inoffensive.