To find my children's friend's 'accidents' really irritating

[Thingiebob]

My children have a friend who lives directly opposite. They are the same age, same school but in different classes. They play together all the time at school and in the evenings and seem to enjoy it. She's 8 and I really want to like her but I am starting to find her quite annoying. She does stuff that drives me up the wall and actively affects my two. I'm close with her mum and I really don't want to fall out as we will be living opposite her for a long time, but she is starting to drive me nuts...

She's not REALLY naughty but has a tendency to just do stuff for no real reason. When I talk to her about it she always claims it was an 'accident'. For example, she chucked my youngest's shoes into a neighbour's garden and made him promise not to tell me. He did tell me the following day in tears after I had searched high and low for them. (He is quite young) When I gently talk to her about it, she runs off home and then I have to deal with her mum who always comes over to inform me it was an 'accident'.

She often damages or breaks my daughter's toys so now I've asked DD to not take anything expensive or dear to her out to play.

She can be quite rough - pushing and grabbing my two quite roughly. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's not an accident but again she always insists it is when I ask her to be more gentle. They'll be playing a game together then out of the blue she'll just yank DDs hair. The other day she hit her between her legs. To make things awkward she is currently being assessed for ASD and Sensory Integration Disorder so I know we all need to be patient with her but some days I want to keep her away from my children.

Other times they play happily together for hours. Her mum has told me that playing with my two has made a real difference to her dd's social skills and confidence and I have seen her behaviour improve over time. I can see the child is benefiting, and I am very proud of my two for how patient and kind they are with her. They are also very fond of her and enjoy hanging out with her, but sometimes they want a break and want to play together and practice their shared hobby. On these occasions she cries, goes home and tells her mum my two are being mean because they won't play with her despite my two always suggesting she joins them. She hates their hobby and refuses to do it. I then get her mum knocking on the door telling me my two are ignoring her DD and could I have a word with them. This has happened twice now and I fear I am going to snap soon as I feel she is not entitled to my kids spare time all the time. Her mum ignores her behaviour.

I HATE that she irritates me so much. It makes me feel horrid as she's not a bad kid and she's had a tough time lately. She can be sweet, fun and good-natured and then she'll do something like deliberately draw all over DD's book or throw her food around. The other day she poured DS's entire juice carton down the drain... accident apparently.

Any advice on how to manage this sensitively?

If the Mum reads it she will see that you've spoken about her and her DD kindly and been more than fair. She might be going through a hard time but lots of people do and they still have to parent their own children. This is a good lesson for your children in asserting their independence.

Your poor little girl OP. All she wanted to do was ride her scooter.

Any problems today?

I agree BuntyII.

If it comes up it might be worth emphasising that your DD often does agree to play, it's just OK to say no sometimes. Friends should play together when they both want to, they're not under obligation, and learning to negotiate this sort of give and take is exactly the sort of life skills children learn from playing out (ie neighbour's DD needs to learn it!!)

Hope you had a better day.

If you want to set a time limit in a neutral way, a tip I picked up from my own DM - a kitchen timer. She used it for fair shares on holding the guinea pig time, how long you've got before it's time to go etc., and because it's mechanical, no emotional undertones of unfairness etc. - just "ding!"
Just make sure the controls can't be easily fiddled.......

Quite a difficult day with this child today. We were out most of the day so didn’t see her until the early evening, by which time my children were tired. I had a chat with my kids about how it’s ok to not want to play and how the friend is not entitled to her time. They did play for a bit but there were a few issues,

I supervised quite closely as suggested and was surprised by some of the child’s interactions, even when I was there. In the end I had to walk away as she was irritating me so much! I have learnt quite a bit though from observing

Stand up for your children or they'll remember that you didnt

It does sound like they need some distance. Hopefully this girl will soon get some specialist help to teach her how to interact with her peers

was surprised by some of the child’s interactions, even when I was there.

I agree with Snuggy it really does sound as if she needs specialist help with social interaction. In fact I only suggested closer supervision so that an adult could intervene if necessary and step in to prevent her hurting your kids or telling your DS to lie to you. Not because I thought it would make her behave any better to your DCs - that never occurred to me!

Also agree you may need some distance and/or limts the time you and your DCs spend with her. And that may need to come from you. Telling your kids "she is not entitled to your time" is very true, but it might be too hard for your DCs to negotiate with a child who genuinely feels that she is either entitled or totally rejected, who does not understand normal social boundaries, and over-reacts when things don't go her way. It may be a simple communication problem - she may not understand that when your kids say "we don't want to play" it means "not right now but maybe another time" but she may also have issues coping with disappointment in the here and now, so you setting a schedule - knowing in advance when she can play with your DDs and when she can't - may make things easier. But you may have to be realistic about whether it is really good for your DCs to play with her or not, and balance that against your wish to be generous to her.

They don’t have to play with her at all.

If the mother says anything just say ‘they are just not getting on together so I think it’s best we keep them apart and give them a break’

Just keep your kids away if she is aggravating you all until you figure it out. Otherwise you will end up getting really annoyed and it’s not the child’s fault if she has ASD.

I think I would start cultivating some other friends for your children.There must be other children at school they might like to invite round??

She lives opposite so I don’t invite her round. She calls for the kids. She’s gone away on holiday at the moment so a bit of a break for us!

She’s not badly behaved all the time. It’s more that she doesn’t seem that socially skilled. My Dd was showing her some new toys she got the other day thinking she might like them. Friend just stood there looking annoyed not saying a word then ran into her house slamming the door.

When asked why she did that later. Her response was ‘I don’t like the toys’. Her response to anything that doesn’t go her way is to run away.

I think I find it hard to manage her because I am aware she has underlying issues so it’s not that straightforward. Thanks for all your advice.

I'm sure her mother knows she's difficult to manage - yet doesn't appear to parent her when outside - does she ever watch them? Does she interact with them? Sounds like she's kicked out and uses your girls as babysitter

I'd find it very difficult to believe she doesn't know what the problems are

I'd find it very difficult to believe she doesn't know what the problems are

I can believe that she doesn't yet know the full picture. Her DD's biggest problems come out in her interactions with other children and there aren't other children at home. Her mother only knows what she's been told and I'm sure her DD doesn't tell her the whole story. I don't know if the OP has told the mother about all these aggressive incidents.

And since her DD hasn't even been assessed yet, the mother doesn't know what communication and discipline approaches have a chance of working with her DD. The mother is only taking the first steps on a very long road.

Her response to anything that doesn’t go her way is to run away.

When they are totally failing to cope most people have three basic responses - flight, fight or freeze. If flight is her go-to then things could be a lot worse. But she has fight in there too - you have seen it. At times playing with other kids - even with your kindly DDs - may be pushing her closer to the edge than anyone realises. I would view running off as an adaptive response - at least compared to one of the alternatives!

I think I find it hard to manage her because I am aware she has underlying issues so it’s not that straightforward.

It might help if you make a distinction between behaviour that is irritating but harmless - such as running off when your DD shows her new toys - and behaviour which is unacceptable even if it is caused by a disability - such as physical aggression to your DDs, or telling your DS to lie to you. If it's just irritating then you can manage it or ignore, but for really unacceptable behaviour your focus is on protecting your own DCs.

Other people's children eh?! I always found them hard.

The point was that her mother should be taking note of her daughters interactions by watching her play - rather than yet more dusting

Fair point greentulips

Ok thanks. That's useful Kleinzeit I am sure Mum is aware to be honest.

I feel so bad for the asd girl, it sounds like her mother isn't helping or handling her well at all.

I feel for your daughters too, it's so hard when they just want to play.

My son has asd and simply does not understand AT ALL when a child doesn't want to play his game, he can't focus on anything else and struggles to think of anything else. It's really difficult to imagine how hard living with autism must be.

It sound like your being amazing and doing the best you can. Your also teaching your girls to be patient and kind to children who are a bit different and do need extra allowances.

Also I don't know if this is the same as what the asd child may have. But some autistic people/children (my son included) can predict sequences of events. So for example jumping with a cup of water and it spilling, he can't predict in his brain that him jumping would then consequencially make the water spill. To him they are separate events . So some thinGs she may do and not realise consequences so call them accidents. Just a thought

Lost it today as she was dragging and pushing my DD around to stop her from doing an activity. DD ran in and told me she had been pushed over and it was seen by another family member of mine.

I asked her why she did and she gave me the usual excuse so I used the line someone mentioned above about making sure this accidents don't happen. She ran off inside for a while, then started shouting out to my DD that she was really mad at her.

She ignored me and looked scared of me each time she saw me for the rest of the day, which I actually hated. Didn't stop her tearing up gifts my DD gave her.

Thanks for giving me help and advice.

I think I’d be making sure your dds are ‘busy’ when she calls round in future and if her mum asks just say that you think it would be a good idea for the girls to have a break from each other as they’re not getting along. It might force her mum to support her dd rather than palm her off and bury her head in the sand. She clearly needs more supervision than she’s getting at the moment and that’s her mums job not yours.

I think her behaviour will get worse, she's not used to being challenged.

As the mother of a dd with asd and who has occasional behavioural issues i am conflicted here. I love it when my dd makes friends but im so careful that the parents are understanding. Shes been ghosted and rejected by several. Tbf though she caused the situation and whilst im sad that the parent was not understanding of her issues, and sad for my daughter that she can struggle with keeping friends or developing deeper friendships, and also think sometimes its a bit of a shame for other kids who are pressured by their parents to not overlook minor stuff that in my experience, parents of boys would tend to just brush off. I really REALLY notice a massive difference in the social expectations towards my daughter compared to my sons, who seem to be allowed to make mistakes and do stupid stuff without being written off as a terrible person or a lost cause.

Firstly, an apology; the suggestion I made upthread about kindly setting boundaries is clearly inappropriate in this case; it might help with a neurotypical child needing to be gently steered into sociability, but this little girl clearly needs more specialised help and intervention.
Fuzzyfozzy is on to something when she points out that you are seeing a bad reaction to being challenged. Her reactions are almost panicky, as she does not know how to handle these restraints on her behaviour. To some extent, her mum has been avoiding the situation, rather in the way that her daughter physically runs away. Being in the throes of a divorce is probably making the atmosphere at home tense, exacerbating the underlying problems. As she grows older, she also has the problem that people will have higher expectations of her capacity for self-restraint and social skills; it is easier to forgive a toddler and wait for the phase to pass, but she is 8, and her behaviour is causing increasing conflict. If she is being professionally assessed, her mum will be receiving some of the specialised advice she needs to support her daughter, and you can let her know that you will help if you can, but your first priority must be your own little ones, who have tried very hard to be kind.