To find my children's friend's 'accidents' really irritating

[Thingiebob]

My children have a friend who lives directly opposite. They are the same age, same school but in different classes. They play together all the time at school and in the evenings and seem to enjoy it. She's 8 and I really want to like her but I am starting to find her quite annoying. She does stuff that drives me up the wall and actively affects my two. I'm close with her mum and I really don't want to fall out as we will be living opposite her for a long time, but she is starting to drive me nuts...

She's not REALLY naughty but has a tendency to just do stuff for no real reason. When I talk to her about it she always claims it was an 'accident'. For example, she chucked my youngest's shoes into a neighbour's garden and made him promise not to tell me. He did tell me the following day in tears after I had searched high and low for them. (He is quite young) When I gently talk to her about it, she runs off home and then I have to deal with her mum who always comes over to inform me it was an 'accident'.

She often damages or breaks my daughter's toys so now I've asked DD to not take anything expensive or dear to her out to play.

She can be quite rough - pushing and grabbing my two quite roughly. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's not an accident but again she always insists it is when I ask her to be more gentle. They'll be playing a game together then out of the blue she'll just yank DDs hair. The other day she hit her between her legs. To make things awkward she is currently being assessed for ASD and Sensory Integration Disorder so I know we all need to be patient with her but some days I want to keep her away from my children.

Other times they play happily together for hours. Her mum has told me that playing with my two has made a real difference to her dd's social skills and confidence and I have seen her behaviour improve over time. I can see the child is benefiting, and I am very proud of my two for how patient and kind they are with her. They are also very fond of her and enjoy hanging out with her, but sometimes they want a break and want to play together and practice their shared hobby. On these occasions she cries, goes home and tells her mum my two are being mean because they won't play with her despite my two always suggesting she joins them. She hates their hobby and refuses to do it. I then get her mum knocking on the door telling me my two are ignoring her DD and could I have a word with them. This has happened twice now and I fear I am going to snap soon as I feel she is not entitled to my kids spare time all the time. Her mum ignores her behaviour.

I HATE that she irritates me so much. It makes me feel horrid as she's not a bad kid and she's had a tough time lately. She can be sweet, fun and good-natured and then she'll do something like deliberately draw all over DD's book or throw her food around. The other day she poured DS's entire juice carton down the drain... accident apparently.

Any advice on how to manage this sensitively?

I think you need to withdraw a bit from this child. As PP suggested I would take your children out a few times a week, especially now it's school holidays, even if it's only to visit Grandma or go to the park, making sure you tell the the girl and her mum that DCs will not be available this afternoon as they are going out. And tell them in advance when DCs are doing their hobby and will not be available too.

And absolutely send her home every time there is an "accident". ASD or not she needs to learn that unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated. When you take her back home tell her mum you are sorry you are having to do this, but her daughter has hurt/upset your children and they now need a break from her. Do it every time.

Hopefully the "accidents " will stop. But either way, your children need you to protect them from her bad behaviour. They shouldn't have to put up with it.

This lovely intelligent mum across the road - well, she's really not, is she? Lovely intelligent people don't ignore their child's behaviour and make people like you feel guilty if your kids need a break from their child from time to time. They just don't.
I really get your need to avoid conflict - I spend an insane amount of my life avoiding conflict. But I think you'd find the whole thing easier to manage if you could start to see that this lovely woman is really quite not thinking about you and your kids at all.

ASD or not she needs to know boundaries. I’d have a break from the child tbh.
My son has SeN including sensory issues and is being assessed for ASD and I know he can get to be a bit much as he is really intense and although it tires me out I know that his friends need time out at times or they will no longer want to play with him.
Sounds mean but it is true.

Back up:

She’s an only child, and I’m guessing your DC are twins?

Holy Christ, I was an only child of a single parent and I remember being so jealoussssssss, like mega jealous of the fact the children across the road had each other and TWO parents.

I was a little shit to them, I remember pulling all their washing off the line and stamping on it, burying the key to the electric meter and the final act before my mum intervened was I stole BOTH their Optimus Prime AND the pink Keyper.

My mum went apeshit when she found out and I was never allowed to play with them again.

Crikey, id almost forgotten about that.

OP, maybe the neighbours DD is jealous??

Ds is at the other end and mr ‘I uphold all rules’ though and that is as irritating when all his friends want to do is play.

I'd start using excuses to cut down the socialising.

I would probably set aside a certain amount of time every day for "chores" or "studying" or "mindfulness" or whatever you want to call it.

That way when Mum turns up and says your kids are ignoring hers, you can explain that they have responsibilities and are unavailable for play at that time.

I wouldn't put up with any of that behaviour OP, what does that teach your children?

Your DC come first and a DC who hurts them and damages their things is no friend. I'd have zero tolerance and send her home after each incident and not allow her back for a few days.

Explain why to her mother, even 'I think they need a break from eachother' would be enough, but your DC need to know that that is not acceptable behaviour.

Do they have other friends you could invite round?

If you're prepared to, tell her she can play for half an hour, an hour, whatever you want, but supervise them.
If her behaviour's ok, then gently remind her five minutes beforehand it will be time to go home soon, and then send her home when it's time.
If she's naughty whilst at yours, pull her up on it the same way you would with your children. I used to have children who would trash the bedrooms (with my kids help of course!) so I used to build in 'tidy up time' so I wasn't clearing up after they left.

You need to work out how to handle this. All mine have sen and impulse control issues and things happen like you describe. Difference is I supervise my kids closely in any social situations. Mine cannot cope being spoken to about things they have done and would run off. So they get time out in their bedroom with no talking as a consequence.

Jealousy is really sad for the child affected but is sadly no excuse for bad behaviour - or actually I should say, while the behaviour is understandable due to the jealousy, it absolutely shouldn't be indulged or excused. What you did to your neighbours was mean :(

I'm overprotective of my two and I'd be sure to let this girl keep trying but all play would be supervised, any ill behaviour towards my DC or their possessions would be end of play, and time would be given for my two to play on their own.

Forgive my ignorance but if the girl really does have autism, isn't it even more important to gently enforce boundaries and be consistent with that? Surely otherwise you're just setting the poor child up for social difficulties that become more and more apparent the older the child gets?

The school thought my DS had sensory integration issues and had him tested. His behaviour wasn't brilliant. He was quite a difficult but lovely child. The biggest thing we did as parents to improve his behaviour was to get on the same page and stop the "inconsistent parenting."
If her parents are going through a divorce I can't imagine there's a lot of consistency and boundaries will not be getting kept.

You need to set her boundries. Set play times. Say to the mum that you will bring her home at x time and give her count down warnings. If she does something naughty tell her your not cross but she needs to go home and take her home each time.

How did she get her hands on whole carton of juice to our down the drain?

Don't let her in bedroom's. Keep her downstairs with set amount of toys. I dread dc going to other people's houses as they can damage toys very easily.

Don't be afraid to say to her and her mum that your dc need time to do their hobby.

There's good advice here, but if you're like me you'd be a bit nervous about following it.

Perhaps if you just did little bits suggested above. Challenging "accidents" occasionally - "It might have been an accident, but it still killed the mood, so better that we leave it there for today" or "even if was an accident, she still needs to say sorry" or as suggested above "accidents happen, but everyone needs to try and be more careful"
Also "no, DC are just doing their hobby, your DD is welcome to join".
Or set more boundaries. "Hello X. Come on in. We're going out in an hour, but you're welcome to play for a little while" etc.

You sound lovely, OP. Very caring.

*inconsistency

I can see both sides of this as a parent of a boy who has asc.

I find myself automatically excusing a lot of his behaviour in my mind although I always make sure I treat him and other kids fairly and the same (as he needs to grow up knowing the world won’t wusually give him
Special treatment). But it’s really really hard being a parent of an autistic child and I can especially understand that as she’s made friends with your girls and that’s such a huge deal to kids with asc she just wants her mark be included. She also mY struggle with impulse control as a lot of children with asc do, even though they know they shouldn’t be doing something they can’t help themselves.

However... hurting your children is not okay. And the fact she isn’t being told off or reminded to be gentle by her parent also isn’t okay. She may be autistic but she’s old enough to try and control her behaviour and her mother shouldn’t be enabling or excusing her behaviour.

Also your girls sound wonderful!

Whether or not this child has SN, that does not excuse her hurting your children. It'd important to teach them to be kind, but also important to teach them that they don't have to let someone else walk all over them. Your priority is your kids and their wellbeing, not the feelings of this one.

You and your children are not there to socialise this kid, and her mother needs to get cracking on her daughters behaviour.

The ‘don’t tell your mum’ also says it isn’t an accident.

Hi Thingibob
You have had some great replys here, my ds 9 years is diagnosed ASD + ADHD and ODD ( alphabet soup as I call it) His behaviour sounds very similar to the child in question. I feel in this situation you have to be honest, it will most likely come to blows unintentionally if not addressed. You sound like you have been very patient and you, of course, value your friendship with child's mum. Be honest with her and if she reacts badly then that is sadly on her. Yes having children that act out or misbehave frequently are hard work, its exhausting, and Im sure the mother values the time and breaks away from her child, just to regroup herself especially since she is going through the divorce, but the child is her responsibility in the end and if she doesn't make changes now she will sadly struggle even more later. Here is a little tip that may help future play times though (works for my son) Take the time to observe the children playing together and if there seem to be any particular "triggers" that result in "accidents" e.g - too much stimulation, noise, food related.I understand child has not been diagnosed with anything but this may help anyway. All the best.

Even genuine accidents have natural consequences. So it's not unreasonable to set clear boundaries in the event of accidents, whether genuine or not.

I'd probably say to the other child: "There have been too many accidents recently, so from now on if there are any accidents it will be time for you to go home." She might protest that it's unfair, but those are the rules, fair or not. Always follow through.

And if her mum complains I'd say the same thing to her: there have been too many accidents and you're putting a stop to it. It's unfortunate that the other mum is having a hard time, but it's not your job to fix her life. You're already doing more than most.

As someone with ASD myself and a DS who is being assessed and another DS with possible ADHD, I think you are perfectly within your rights to lay boundaries and let your kids know it's nice to play with her, but perfectly fine to play by themselves too.

I see it as extra important that I set boundaries for mine as they don't have the same understanding as other children, so while I see something as a reason for their behaviour, it's not an excuse.

You are doing nothing wrong wanting to protect your children.

I think the child coming over every day is too frequently. Cut back on those as you and your DC need a break from her to be able to do your own things, I think the mum is taking advantage a bit because she can’t deal with her child. You do need to tell the mum that it’s not fair on your family and so you are going to limit the amount of time the DD is at your home. Say that her DD is to do as you ask otherwise she will be brought home if she does anything hurtful or damages things.

It’s always a good idea to put certain things away, to avoid damage. Also don’t be as available, go out more, you don’t have to explain or justify.

All the posters saying it doesn't matter that she is autistic clearly don’t understand autism very well. Yes some children with ASD don’t have chalking behaviour but many do. Lack of understanding of others intentions, impulsiveness, understanding the ‘rules’ are all classic things the some people with ASD struggle with.

OP I would write some house rules down (supper nanny style) and clearly set out the consequences of breaking them and follow through. Your friendship with her Mum will probably suffer though.

I agree the first thing is to get her used to not being able to play whenever she feels like coming round. I'd establish a routine that works for you with rules - e.g. not Tuesday and Thursday when there is hobby practice, or not before 3pm, something like that.
Any accident, she gets sent home. Any sob story, just say you're sorry but they all need a break from each other or another accident is bound to happen. You are also allowed to say you need some time without random kids in the house.