To find my children's friend's 'accidents' really irritating

[Thingiebob]

My children have a friend who lives directly opposite. They are the same age, same school but in different classes. They play together all the time at school and in the evenings and seem to enjoy it. She's 8 and I really want to like her but I am starting to find her quite annoying. She does stuff that drives me up the wall and actively affects my two. I'm close with her mum and I really don't want to fall out as we will be living opposite her for a long time, but she is starting to drive me nuts...

She's not REALLY naughty but has a tendency to just do stuff for no real reason. When I talk to her about it she always claims it was an 'accident'. For example, she chucked my youngest's shoes into a neighbour's garden and made him promise not to tell me. He did tell me the following day in tears after I had searched high and low for them. (He is quite young) When I gently talk to her about it, she runs off home and then I have to deal with her mum who always comes over to inform me it was an 'accident'.

She often damages or breaks my daughter's toys so now I've asked DD to not take anything expensive or dear to her out to play.

She can be quite rough - pushing and grabbing my two quite roughly. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's not an accident but again she always insists it is when I ask her to be more gentle. They'll be playing a game together then out of the blue she'll just yank DDs hair. The other day she hit her between her legs. To make things awkward she is currently being assessed for ASD and Sensory Integration Disorder so I know we all need to be patient with her but some days I want to keep her away from my children.

Other times they play happily together for hours. Her mum has told me that playing with my two has made a real difference to her dd's social skills and confidence and I have seen her behaviour improve over time. I can see the child is benefiting, and I am very proud of my two for how patient and kind they are with her. They are also very fond of her and enjoy hanging out with her, but sometimes they want a break and want to play together and practice their shared hobby. On these occasions she cries, goes home and tells her mum my two are being mean because they won't play with her despite my two always suggesting she joins them. She hates their hobby and refuses to do it. I then get her mum knocking on the door telling me my two are ignoring her DD and could I have a word with them. This has happened twice now and I fear I am going to snap soon as I feel she is not entitled to my kids spare time all the time. Her mum ignores her behaviour.

I HATE that she irritates me so much. It makes me feel horrid as she's not a bad kid and she's had a tough time lately. She can be sweet, fun and good-natured and then she'll do something like deliberately draw all over DD's book or throw her food around. The other day she poured DS's entire juice carton down the drain... accident apparently.

Any advice on how to manage this sensitively?

Yes I agree. It may be that you’ll have to make your peace with not being as chummy with the mum anymore. If the dynamic is dependent on you giving her daughter unlimited houseroom and appeasing her, you may well find that mum isn’t quite as lovely when you stop.
You have to be ok with that.

I'd be taking your daughters out after school a few days a week to the park or the library or McDonald's or anywhere! Anything you can think of so they get a break from her. If mum asks if her child can come then tell her it's family time

My opinion is controversial but....there is asd and asd.
One is a development disorder which is a disability.
The other is a label used to diagnose twats who havent been disciplined and who are monsters. This kid sounds like that, i doubt she is autistic.
Imo the latter group wreck support for the first because it means everyone sees autistic kids as naughty. My son has asd and does none of those things, she needs to parent the kid.

the mother does not have special needs and would get more respect if she got real and stopped describing bullying and vandalism as an 'accident'. Whatever the reasons behind it.

I am surprised though that your DDs never go to play at her house? It shouldn’t matter that her house is super tidy. By 8 years old a (non SEN) child should be able to go on a play date to someone else’s house without fear they will wreck it. What about her garden? How about suggesting they play at hers occasionally - then the mum will have to experience the girl’s behaviour first hand. Or maybe the girl will behave differently in her own home.

I also agree that any ‘accidents’ such as hair pulling, rough treatment, juice down the drain, repeated face squeezing, broken toys, thrown shoes etc within the established hour should result in you taking her back home to mum with a polite explanation as to why and a pleasant assurance that she can come back tomorrow or Tuesday or whenever it will suit you.

“We’re finished playing for today but perhaps you can play more gently tomorrow.”

This lets mum know you’re not a doormat while keeping the interaction on a positive note and going forward.

Why not make your back garden just for your two, if you're playing with friends you're out the front.
They ask before they take toys out the front.
Go out with them and explain, to all, that you're all to play nicely, no one is to made to feel sad or hurt, no accidents, or playing is over for today.
Don't send her home, she's not your responsibility, your two can play elsewhere?

Oh...I only meant for OP to take her home if the wee girl is in her home or garden. If they are playing out front in communal space she can’t do that.

I think making the back garden a personal family space is a good idea. If they want company they are out front. It also gives them a space to retreat to if it’s getting too much and they need a break from her (or any other kids in the neighbourhood). Good rule. I like it.

Sorry Pictish, not a criticism. I just thought that if op is taking her home it felt to me that it was because she was responsible for her and had to hand her back.
When in reality she's just a kid playing on the street.
I'd also give your children the responsibility of saying, I've had enough, I don't like it when you... we're going home.

The back garden rule is also an easy one to explain the the girl’s mother without pinpointing her daughter specifically.

“I have decided to adopt this policy to keep my garden from becoming the local summer daycare centre for the neighbourhood (conspiratorial laugh). Group games are for out the front, the back garden is just for us or by invite only.”

Say it like it’s the best idea you’ve ever had and you’re enthusiastically passing on a tip...even if she never hosts.

Could you speak to her mum and say "they like playing with your daughter but need some time on their own sometimes"

It sounds like mum is using you and your daughters as a crutch. Probably not in a horrible way but it's still not fair on any of you. Could you suggest the mum takes her daughter to an activity such as drama class or dance class or something that your daughters aren't interested in? You could frame it as it would be good for her social skills and would help her to make friends with different types of people. It would also give your kids some breathing space!

Wow user183737.

Just wow.

I haven’t read the whole thread but “twats who haven’t been disciplined” and are “monsters”. Am I right in thinking you’re describing children here?

You may well have a child with ASD, but have you ever heard the phrase “if you’ve met one child with asd you’ve met one child with asd”? Just because you’re asd child doesn’t behave a certain way, it certainly doesn’t mean asd children who do have been falsely diagnosed. Please educate yourself. As a parent and a teacher of asd children I find your opinion extremely offensive and quite frankly incorrect.

Apologies for the grammatical errors. I blame autocorrect and my angry typing.

Then when she IS over by invite, stick to a specified time scale and take her home if she misbehaves.

By keeping your back garden by invite only, putting time limits on her visits and politely returning her home if she misbehaves in your house or garden, you should be able to reasonably maintain the boundaries that are so lacking at the moment. There’s not a lot mum can say to any of that...it’s your house and your decision.

I am so invested in this...I have been in a similar situation in the past and sympathise enormously. In my experience it’s the parents who need to be made aware of the boundaries more than the child. Go for it.

Set some boundaries and stick up for your dc.

I know you feel sorry for the child and her mother but they aren’t your responsibility.

If her mother cared the same way about your children’s feelings as you do for hers / her childs she would be acknowledging the issues, at the very least apologising, trying to manage her dc behaviour and offering to repair or replace damaged or broken items.
She isn’t - she’s making excuses, minimising, and prioritising her child over yours.
Why are you doing the same ?

You have a responsibility to your children and if they aren’t happy in their own home, are getting their possessions damaged or are getting hurt you need to step in and put a stop to it.

Her mother says these incidents are accidents your dc say different or even you know different so say something to her to challenge it.

If it’s something caused by over exuberant playing - You should say things like “I know you/she didn’t mean to hurt dd/ break the toy etc, but she is hurt because her hair/face leg is sore/ toy is still broken and dd is sad so it’s best you/your dd goes /stays home for the rest of today”

If it’s more deliberate like pouring juice/ throwing shoes and telling them not to tell you you say
“I know you/your dd said it’s an accident but .... I saw it happen and it didn’t look that way to me or I can’t understand how a both of pair of shoes are thrown away and she told them not to tell me by accident .... or how a whole carton of juice tipped away by accident or how so much scribbling on this book happened by accident etc ... or just say my dc doesn’t agree with you about what happened so I’m afraid I have to support her version as you support yours/ your child’s . I think it’s best you/your dc goes/stays home for today”

If your children want to practice their macrame (or whatever hobby it is) just say “ my dc want to do xyz and I’m not stopping them seeing as I send them to club/pay for lessons etc so it’s best you/your child goes stays home”

If you’ve had enough you just tell her/her mum “not today”

Stressed you are clearly a kind and giving person. However, I am going to say it’s not in OP’s remit to guide her neighbour on how to socialise her daughter, suggesting classes and so on...if a neighbour came out with that spiel to me I’d think they were a patronising git and pay no heed at all.
No...OP needs to stick to her role, which is to be concerned with her own kids and household and establishing what she will and will not tolerate within those confines. IMHO.

Rainfall
Deliberately hurting others, destroying toys and general destructive and nasty behaviour is just not asd. Its nastiness. Some kids at school fight every breaktime, tell the teacher to f off and generally make life miserable for other kids. That is also not asd.
This kid needs boundaries and rules, they also need a parent to take responsibility rather than blaming 'asd' and expecting op to sort out her kid, instead of ops kids pandering to her 'needs'. Its irritating to the extreme. Why should people put up with it when the parents wont? If my son has issues i deal with them first. He knows not to be rude and unpleasant as i have taught him that.

And often looking at the parents makes it obvious which kids have been diagnosed for behaviour reasons. I know parents who let their kids run riot and blame it on disability. They are doing them no favours.

I'd play her mother at her own game. Next time something happens, take the child back and tell the mother what happened, finishing with "My child is so sad that she was hurt / had a toy broken etc and doesn't want to play with her any more today."

Do NOT let her daughter become the victim. Get in there first, and spell out what happened.

www.autism.org.uk/about/behaviour/challenging-behaviour.aspx

User, this is a good website. You might find it informative.

Sometimes parents themselves have asd and night in some cases misinterpret a social situation. My daughters dad sometimes laughed at her “ antics” as he didn’t pick up that she was making other people uncomfortable.

• night= might

I had this with a neighbours cousin. The cousin was much younger and would expect to come over here to play every single time she was over. If we were in she thought that meant we were free and she could come in too. She would sit on our garden wall and stare through the window as we ate dinner and then would knock the second she saw someone leave the table even if they only went to the loo and then came back. It was exhausting. I explained to her so nicely many many many times. Eventually I started shutting the storm doors too...that didn't help. She would climb into the back garden and bash the back windows/door.

I eventually told her the kids needed a break from each other and she should go home.

I wouldn't mind if they played nicely but the kids wanted her over to start with and within half an hour she would have at least one in tears. And they aren't delicate flower kids, I'm a more the merrier type and will invite an extra 3 in no probs. She was hard work.

Happy to have her play for a bit but not 24/7 when she's staying next door...which she wants. She would shout for sleepovers etc.

Tbh I think you’re doing too much op

Try to carve out time for just your two and when she visits feel free to say no to bad behaviour

As PPs have said, boundaries. Your DC’s safety and wellbeing is important, and ignoring or minimising it won’t help the friend either. Take home, every time. If the mum says her DC is sad, tell her that’s for her to manage as her parent, and perhaps her DD will behave better next time she visits. If that pisses the mum off, so be it.

Getting divorced is sad but doesn’t excuse poor parenting!

I wouldn’t want my DC playing at this friend’s house as I would not trust her mum’s judgment!