Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

Also I care fa about getting a blue passport, I'm losing my European citizenship - it's being removed against my wishes.

'I have given up trying to argue with the most venomous REMAINERS now, because they are just 100% wrong about everything they come out with. '

100% wrong about everything? Really?

Robert Peston's recent book, WTF? is an interesting read. He makes the argument that the "Establishment" took the we know best line and badly misjudged the extent to which a majority of voters were angry or disenchanted. The decisions, choices and rulings that didn't hold those in positions of power to account after the financial crisis, or Grenfell, matter because there was a blatant disregard for social justice and people on zero-hours contracts and NMW jobs felt they had been short-changed or hung out to dry. Add to that high house prices, or poor/insecure rented housing, pressure on medical facilities and school places and all the other issues that make the "just about managings" anxious and you have an electorate minded to deliver a bloody nose to anyone who seemed complicit.

Peston remains an ardent European and was astonished when Leave won, but he has understood why it happened.

In the interests of disclosure, I dithered over my vote and changed my mind daily but asked my 17 year old which way to go, and carried out that wish. Old enough to have voted to stay in the Common Market in the 1970s, but I'm not convinced by the drive for closer union.

Brexiteers are accused of racism/xenophobia because many of those who voted to leave did so primarily in order to control immigration, which for some at the thicker/UKIP /EDL end of the spectrum somehow translates into a white Britain magically cleansed of Muslims and job-stealing Poles.

^This

The problem is that giving the establishment a bloody nose on a vote where every individual vote counted was a bloody stupid idea. Especially as the establishment members backing leave are the most neoliberal and have the most disregard for those who are just about managing.

My friend told me today that they are closing their business because they are losing EU contracts.
I'm generally mightily pissed off about the whole thing.
I don't particularly think it's moral superiority. I think it's the much cleaner emotion of anger.

The majority of remainers on here slating leavers and almost all of the remainer crowd shouting racist. The vote went in favour to leave and the losing team started name calling, its like the school playground only with adults and politics.
It true that members of the leave campaign have expressed racist views but does that mean every single person who voted leave is racist? No it doesn't.
I couldn't give a toot if you voted to remain or leave and I certainly wouldn't brand you a racist because of that choice . I would however call all remainers with this view 'cckwombling fckwits' for branding people racist for voting opposite to you. It's one of the worse things you can brand someone and yet it's been thrown around. You have to be racist because you disagreed with me. F**king childish nonsense

It true that members of the leave campaign have expressed racist views but does that mean every single person who voted leave is racist?

Nobody has come even close to suggesting this.

A4Document, your argument on the generational difference in levels of educational attainment is spot on. While neither my parents nor my in-laws (or the grandparents on any side of my extended family) have degrees, it's not because they are stupid; it's because such a tiny % of people went to university. Most professionals qualified through on the job training after leaving school between 14 and 16 until the 1980s.

One of the crosses against Brussels was a comment that only people with degrees should have the right to vote. I read it in The Times!

Many people never wanted to be told they were now a so-called "European citizen" in the first place. However it isn't even possible to renounce EU citizenship without also renouncing your UK citizenship at the same time.

The EU is not a country and I think has massively (and deliberately) overstepped the mark since Maastricht in the 1990s in mimicking the features of one - it's own passport, flag, motto, anthem, parliaments, central bank, currency, presidents, outer borders which it controls (despite complaining about actual countries having these!), courts, "citizenship", replacing our laws in one direction only, planning for an EU-wide tax system and army, and so on.

The EU is extremely nationalistic about itself, all the while condemning genuine countries with a long history who wish to remain independent of EU control.

Thank you OCSock

"The vote went in favour to leave and the losing team started name calling, its like the school playground only with adults and politics. "

I've seen racist posts called out as racist, but never the remark that all leavers were racist.

Strawman.

Of course not every leave voter is a racist but all racists voted leave, I can just about guarantee that. I have heard some very racist views from people in the leave camp and incidentally yet to meet an intellectual open leave voter.

Prior to the vote I had asked many Leavers for their reasoning and nobody could explain it.

The majority of times I have seen people ask those who voted Leave to explain why, was simply so they could immediately try and rip the reasons to shreds. If they were well reasoned, they defaulted to the 'Oh you must actually be a racist' position. It does not surprise me that many of those that voted Leave don't get into debates.

The levels of educational attainment argument being related to age are false, because the surveys all say "or equivalent professional qualification" , I know, I took one.

Surely Jacob Rees Smug is the very essence of moral superiority and the "we're more educated than you" stance?

Of course not every leave voter is a racist but all racists voted leave, I can just about guarantee that.

So not a single racist saw any advantage whatsoever to remaining in the EU?

"If they were well reasoned, they defaulted to the 'Oh you must actually be a racist' position. It does not surprise me that many of those that voted Leave don't get into debates."

Again, never seen this.

If you vote to upend the status quo radically, then you better have good arguments for why that's better for the country and a well thought out plan of how to achieve it.

I have never come across a leaver who had either, tbh.

So I think remainers have every right to their moral high ground. They didn't unleash this mess. They're entitled to be pissed off as it's foisted upon them.

For example this:

"he EU is not a country and I think has massively (and deliberately) overstepped the mark since Maastricht in the 1990s in mimicking the features of one - it's own passport, flag, motto, anthem, parliaments, central bank, currency, presidents, outer borders which it controls (despite complaining about actual countries having these!), courts, "citizenship", replacing our laws in one direction only, planning for an EU-wide tax system and army, and so on."

Appears reasoned. However what it fails to note is that each of these policies was debated at both EU and national level before being signed up to, by democratically elected governments and politicians.

It also makes big mistakes in that the EU parliament ( flag and anthem) have existed since 1979, and came into being to give increased levels of democracy to the EU and its oversight. You can't complain on the one hand about the EU being undemocratic ( its not) and then complain about it having a parliament on the other.

I don't think it's a matter of 'moral superiority' I think it's just plain anger and frustration - it's the same sort of feeling you get when a child wantonly destroys something and you have to clean up the mess. They didn't necessarily mean to destroy it - but you really feel they should have known better and you resent bearing the brunt of their actions.

GhostofFrankGrimes + topcat1980 I never said all.

But have a look around, the accusation is been thrown around that leavers are racist and its distinguish. Its a horrible thing to call a person because they voted differently.
It's unfortunate that the leave campaign became focused on the racist factions.

Absolutely @A4Document
The 'stat facts' are that younger people voted remain. So, it's absolutely bleeding obvious that they are more 'educated' note not more intelligent), because the older generation didn't go to university for a Mickey Mouse degree like nowadays.
Ah well, at least that pointless degree came in handy to prove you're on the clever side.

@Cherrypavlova

Sadly those likely to be worst affected are those who voted leave because they tend to be less educated, less affluent and live in more challenged areas.

🤣🤣🤣😂😂

Funniest post on the thread. Oddly, I (and most people I know who voted for BREXIT) don't fit your demographic here in my upper middle class village in Cheshire. Where many of the inhabitants are doctors, nurses, solicitors, vets, people from the clergy, scientists, MP's and actors, musicians, and sportspeople. And I wouldn't call myself badly educated with a degree and a masters from Birmingham University,

And I do NOT live in a 'less affluent area!' The average price for a property in my village is £850K to £1.3 million... Quite a few of them are worth £2.5 to 3.5 million... And a few are even more than that......

I guess you must come from a dog-rough area if the people you know who voted for BREXIT are like you describe!

Oh and thanks for proving me (and many others on this thread) right about some remainers.

Clueless and scared, so they attack and berate.

I feel sorry for you really.......

Many people who voted REMAIN are a LOT more clueless than the people who voted LEAVE, and didn't even know what they were voting for.

The sooner we are out of the EU the better. Maybe these whiney remoaners will STFU then!!!

*disclaimer... not ALL Remainers are bad, but the ones who ARE, are a fucking pain!!!

@mousefunky

Of course not every leave voter is a racist but all racists voted leave, I can just about guarantee that. I have heard some very racist views from people in the leave camp and incidentally yet to meet an intellectual open leave voter.

Well done. The SECOND funniest post on the thread. 😂😂😂🤣🤣

Don't get out much do ya luv?!

See, you and a few others on this thread are just PROVING the leave voters right. That SOME remainers are spiteful, vitriolic, bitter, and childish, and just constantly issue pathetic little remarks like this.

'I have never met a remainer who is intellectual' is a pathetic, nasty remark.

You are basically saying 'all people who voted for Brexit are thick, and badly educated and lower class...'

Don't deny it.

We are leaving the EU hun. Suck it up and quit moaning.

Oh and by the way, if some 'Leave' voters ARE being bitchy towards the remainers, it's only because they are sick of being attacked and insulted, so they're giving some back!

What's more the abuse from the remainers has been WAAAAAY worse than any abuse from the people who voted to leave. Some of them have been fucking vile.

And the only reason things are a 'mess' now, is because of the fucking idiots who have been CONSTANTLY trying to derail Brexit!

And nothing is being 'destroyed' FFS. I do wish people would quit the histrionics!

As I said, we are leaving the EU, suck it up and quit whining FFS!