Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

[topcat1980]

The blame will never go to the leave vote, or those that campaigned for it.

It will be the EU and remainers who are at fault for the Brexit disaster.

[runningkeenster]

I don't want another referendum though and I think the 3 way question will just lead to a Hard Brexit where we'll be in legal, cultural and economic limbo for years.

I'd prefer a EEA-style compromise. No it doesn't please the more extreme Remainers or Leavers, but given the closeness of the vote, it's what we voted for, and it's what they did in Norway in a similar situation.

[Helmetbymidnight]

in the case of another referendum, the leave vote would be much much higher

I don't think that for a moments. Its only anecdotal, of course, but I know:
5 leave voters died (from old age)
2 leave voters pretending they voted remain.
several leave voters who think we've already left.

Can Brexitteers not just list the good stuff coming our way?

[topcat1980]

I see leave voters quoting these arguments a lot more than I've ever heard or seen them from remainers.

Typical strawman.

[BadLad]

The referendum party, they had 547 candidates standing and campaigned specifically on this and gained 2.6% of the total vote.

And they gained not a single seat, if I recall correctly. It would have been a wasted vote. There's never going to be a new party that comes close to taking power. Even people who don't agree with much of what the Tories or Labour propose will often vote for one of them for fear that the other will get in. It was obvious that the Referendum Party wouldn't come close to making an impact.

There was no realistic option for those who didn't want closer ties with Europe until the referendum.

[Bombardier25966]

I think a lot of us would vote Leave that didn't before if we could go back in time, because economic scare stories are one thing, but the attitudes on display during and after the referendum, that we should be rolling back the vote, not giving votes to old people etc. are bordering on fascistic to be frank.

So you'd vote to give more power to the borderline fascists? That is what a leave vote amounts to, giving complete power to the UK elite.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

BadLad your issue is with First past the post which is different argument altogether. There was a referendum on AV in 2011 but it didn't seem to capture the imagination quite like the EU referendum.

[papayasareyum]

we are going to leave, it would be an offence to democracy to achieve any other outcome. Ironically,it will be the pugilistic remainers who make the leaving process more difficult than it needs to be.

[topcat1980]

"And they gained not a single seat"

But you asked who you would vote for? There were parties to vote for and they didn't receive backing. Which suggests that the electorate were quite fine with the decisions being taken on Europe at the time.

If people had felt that strongly about it then they would have won seats. Even UKIP only won seats because of defectors ( and lost the 2nd one at the 2015 election).

In the end the issues that you cite have been very low down on people's priotiries in terms of electoral value.

Which is why they weren't made the main tenet of any campaign to leave the EU, and the other erroneous claims were.

[butterflysugarbaby]

@GhostOfFrankGrimes


The EU is not bullying the UK. It is more a case that leavers have "won" but have no idea as to what their prize is or even how to claim it. Rather than hold their hands and admit this they start blaming everybody else.

@Conciseandnice

Not all Brexiters are racist, but all racists are Brexiters.

PMSL

God, there is some ridiculous crap being spouted on here by (some) Remainers.

I knew this thread would go like this. The OP started it off so well, with a good, well balanced view, then along come the nasty little remainers calling Brexiteers thick, badly educated, from poor areas, racist, bigoted... la la la.

Just bore off.

I am hiding this thread now.

Can't reason with such narrow minded pathetic vitriolic individuals who don't know what the FUCK they are talking about!

See ya!

[Helmetbymidnight]

Some people love a cheating campaign. They think Boris Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage, Davis and Banks are not elites.
When asked what great things to expect post-Brexit but they can't/won't answer. They will vote leave because a remainer was rude to them.

What a time to be alive.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

What a loss. Throw a strop. Provide no counter argument. Same old.

[BadLad]

Certainly.

But what was implied was that if we didn't like the EU policies up to which our government signed us, we had the chance to vote it.

I'm saying we didn't. There was no realistic option to vote this way. It is therefore not a separate issue.

[CambridgeAnaglypta]

I know that leavers had fewer degrees.

Here we go again. Some righteous Remainer claiming those who voted Leave are uneducated idiots.

[BadLad]

But you asked who you would vote for? There were parties to vote for and they didn't receive backing. Which suggests that the electorate were quite fine with the decisions being taken on Europe at the time.

This is where we disagree. I don't think it suggests any such thing. The nature of our system is there was no option to vote for with a realistic chance of power. Therefore people voted on other issues, over which the Tories and Labour disagreed.

[Helmetbymidnight]

fewer degrees = uneducated idiots??

Some people really struggle with facts.

[Pause3FuhFuh]

Butterfly has obviously been taking lessons in eloquence and debate from Donald trump. She might as well have just put FAKE NEWS

[Believeitornot]

Can't reason with such narrow minded pathetic vitriolic individuals who don't know what the FUCK they are talking about

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahaha
Hahahahahaha

Yeah because you’ve provided a coherent polite argument as to why Leave is so brilliant. There’s no name calling or insults from you at all.

[placemats]

Not all Brexiters are racist, but all racists are Brexiters.

This.

And it's clear that Butterfly doesn't understand the point you are making with their PMSL response - nice!

[bellinisurge]

@butterflysugarbaby - you aren't helping with your tone. I thought you said you were better than that.

[topcat1980]

"Therefore people voted on other issues, over which the Tories and Labour disagreed."

See I think thats what happened at the referendum, really people aren't too bothered about the EU, but what they did vote on is other issues. Giving Cameron a bloody nose, as a reaction to years of low pay rises and high living costs and yes because of the perceived ( not real) impact of immigration.

None of which is solved by leaving the EU.

[specialsubject]

no, Op, you are not the only one who can see both sides of an immensely complex situation. But you are one of the few on this thread.

if there were fewer closed minds and less arrogance we would not be in this mess.

the EEC was and is a great concept. Pity the baby is now down the tubes with the bathwater.

[TheElementsSong]

Can't reason with such narrow minded pathetic vitriolic individuals who don't know what the FUCK they are talking about

I think we should C&P this around, and say it was from a Remainer. After all, it is Remainers who are angry/vitriolic/abusive etc etc, right?

[Helmetbymidnight]

Surely brexitteers want to talk about the good things coming our way?

[BadLad]

See I think thats what happened at the referendum, really people aren't too bothered about the EU, but what they did vote on is other issues.

I have to say I think that's more likely to happen at a General Election, contested over a variety of policies, than a referendum over a single Either / Or question.

Getting back to the point, I just do not agree with you at all that because of the Referendum Party's only getting 2-3% of the vote, it follows that the rest of the voters supported closer types with the EU. I wouldn't say that the vast majority of the electorate supported the Iraq war, but the Green Party, whose manifesto proposed pulling U.K. troops out, didn't come close to power in 2005.