Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

Flooding in North Carolina and the environmental impact of industrialised pig farming.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/10/16/factory-farming-practices-are-under-scrutiny-again-in-n-c-after-disastrous-hurricane-floods/?utm_term=.84e4ece356a6

The above farms are probably Smithfield. Banned from producing in Iowa. They now farm in Eastern Europe. Hoped to go to Norfolk but Brexit has stalled this.

www.edp24.co.uk/business/major-meat-supplier-smithfield-foods-confident-of-growth-despite-taking-brexit-hit-1-5158111

@runningkeenster - tumbleweed

runningkeenster I’m still waiting for a Remainer on a MN thread not to come across as a self righteous, smug, supercilious twat.

I guess none of us gets what we want in life

It is dear!

I guess none of us gets what we want in life

You certainly won't post Brexit.

So you just expect farmers to keep hold of land that they aren’t allowed to farm?

Not a solid argument is it.

Actually we should have supported our farmers to keep producing, then we wouldn’t be in this mess.

No. I think farmers should be able to sell their land off for development. However this is often stopped at planning, supported by councillors, due to prime agricultural land. There are ways around this and will probably be slackened post brexit.

Let's be honest. Post Brexit. Is the government going to subsidise the farmers to the tune of billions or will it relax the laws to bypass the subsidies?

Calledyou you've kind of proved the point. Remainer asks for facts and you insult them.

If being right and having the arguments on your side makes you smug and supercilious I'll take that over quite simply being wrong.

I think when people say 'morally superior' they mean factually correct and able to argue the point. Superior in that the arguments hold together and make sense.

I don’t think there is any need for anyone to insult anyone else. There were reasons why people voted leave (that had nothing to do with being racist) and we are now where we are.

Supporting the people making the stuff we eat and that we can swap for stuff we can eat seems to me to be a major priority

Ah, the source of the scare story about butter "The London School of Economics (LSE) research, commissioned by dairy cooperative Arla".

That would be the Danish company Arla, which owns the biggest selling butter brand in the UK, imported from Denmark.

You think that's serious research that the EU would have funded and it's just a coincidence that the company which has most to lose from tariffs on dairy imports paid for it?

People who are perceived to be less deserving because they haven’t paid taxes all their lives etc will inevitably be resented.

I thought it was the 'foreigners taking all our jobs' that was the problem? Either they're taking all our jobs or they're workshy benefit scroungers - which is it? The people I know in Britain who don't work, don't pay taxes and are, frankly, lazy scroungers are all British.

I voted Leave because I felt, on the balance of probabilities, it was the best thing for the UK. I fully expected Remain to win and when that inevitably happened I hoped that we could pull together and work in the best interests of the UK.

The thing that surprises me still is the attitude of so many Remainers. People who I have spoken to (in real life, so, politely...) who voted Remain seem to prefer it if Brexit be a complete disaster so that they can say "I told you so" - they'd much prefer that than it (God forbid) not be a disaster. Most of the time they freely admit that they hold this view, which I find strange.

"Either they're taking all our jobs or they're workshy benefit scroungers - which is it?"

Erm, the answer to that is quite obvious. They're all individuals and not some collective lump. It's you that is generalising about them.

Yes, there may well be a problem with food supplies, that's down to potential transport and customs problems though. This scare story is that prices of dairy products will increase because of the import duty we'll have to pay to keep our shelves stocked.

The truth is that we're virtually self-sufficient in dairy products and the main company which will lose out if we change our buying habits is the DANISH company, owned (mainly) by DANISH farmers who sell the leading brand of butter (made in DENMARK from DANISH milk) to the UK.

Yes the remainers seem to jump between excitable Castrophising about food shortages and then stamping their feet because they cannot get over the fact it is happening.

Very strange.

I hope that brexit is not a disaster but the rush for quick trade deals and the side effect, which will likely be a lowering of standards is what bothers me. Is it sovereignty or trade deals that the ultra Brexiteers are more concerned with? Is this a brexit for the many or the few? Time and time again this issue comes up and yet, it's like some kind of 'inconvenient truth' that gets ignored :

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/19/liam-fox-trade-secretary-britain-brexit

@ChelleDawg2020

Erm, the answer to that is quite obvious. They're all individuals and not some collective lump. It's you that is generalising about them.

You clearly didn't read my post properly - I was not the one generalising. I was responding to the post suggesting that people voted leave because they resented immigrants receiving benefits having not paid in. However the usual racist claptrap regularly trotted out is that immigrants are stealing jobs. Either they're working or they're not, surely it can't be both...

I know they're individuals. I'm not the one moaning about them stealing jobs or claiming benefits. I didn't vote because I'm not entitled to but would have voted remain if I could because I'm not a racist twat and I know that immigration has a valuable role to play in any modern society and that Britain, like any country, can benefit from it.

And I'd better state here again that I know not every leave voter is a racist twat but the ones I know turned out, to my horror as I hadn't even realised, to be just that so I'm pretty bitter about the whole thing.

The truth is that we're virtually self-sufficient in dairy products and the main company which will lose out if we change our buying habits is the DANISH company, owned (mainly) by DANISH farmers who sell the leading brand of butter (made in DENMARK from DANISH milk) to the UK

@FishesaPlenty

Sorry, but the UK is far from being self sufficient in dairy products, particularly butter, cheese and yoghurt. You can read the details here:

dairy.ahdb.org.uk/news/news-articles/july-2016/uk-self-sufficiency-levels/#.W1C6UPZFzb0

As for Arla losing out if the UK stops buying Lurpak - clearly there will be some loss to Arla, but the UK would still need to buy butter from somewhere and in the event of a hard Brexit, there will be no trade agreements in place with any other countries to allow this.

Arla exports Lurpak to 75 countries. Just like the German car makers, Italian wine producers and all of the others that Johnson liked to claim 'need us more than we need them', Arla will do just fine. Another fact for you - there is currently a European shortage of butter, so what Arla don't sell in the UK they can sell elsewhere.

money.cnn.com/2017/08/09/news/economy/butter-shortage-europe/index.html