Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

Someone like me, who is lucky to be able to afford more than stupidly cheap, can probably absorb an increase.

What's the difference in price between cheap rubbery Dutch Cheddar and cheap rubbery English Cheddar then? Absolutely marginal. UK producers don't currently target the absolute bottom end because the people wanting to save the last possible penny aren't interested in where it comes from. Producers naturally want the best possible return on what they produce and they know they can charge a bit more just by sticking a union flag on the packet. Without the Dutch shite on the market we'll just have a new lower level of British shite to replace it.

The shit situation now is not due to remainders or brexiteers it's due to a load of small minded politicians who've proved that they can't work together and don't really give a shit because they will be alright whatever.
That it has taken 18 mo this to cobble up a policy that the EU has already said no to takes some doing!
The EU politicians are not coveting themselves with glory either and I know some remainders have changed their mind because if it.
I am hoping for a chocolate shortage so that I can loose weight but will stock pile wine next Feb.just in case.My dds taking her GCSEs should put it all in perspective .

Without the Dutch shite on the market we'll just have a new lower level of British shite to replace it.

Except that we don't produce anything close to enough of it, so the price of the crap stuff will increase because demand will outstrip supply.

Just so I have this straight, Remainers won’t listen to anecdotal evidence because it doesn’t exist. Only get their facts from surveys, etc., because you know they are not manipulated , and are really not interested in hearing anyone who voted to Leave’s opinion.

PS where I live I could happily live out of the non-EU Turkish shop or are they fucked as well!

Anecdotes are often tailored to fit the view point of those that tell them.

Academic studies that are peer reviewed and have corresponding studies which back up the information are far more reliable.

You know its why we actually do research?

What do you want us to say? Yes you are right? We will do something about the irrantional beliefs that you have?

Have you seen the opinion on this thread about the leave vote? Its fantasy, put together to fit a narrative.

The neo liberal elite brought about brexit to get more of what they want, the working poor who voted for it were duped because they were stupid enough to believe the propaganda and that things couldn't possibly get worse.

They can and it will.

But the EU will still be blamed, its a great exercise in passing the buck from the voters and those that ran the campaign.

Very interested to hear Leavers' opinions. And their anecdotal evidence. However, right now I'd really like a Leave voter to tell me how this is going to work. Not blue sky bollocks. Real stuff. How we are going to get there.

Except that we don't produce anything close to enough of it, so the price of the crap stuff will increase because demand will outstrip supply.

But dontcha know we'll just start producing more, out of the air, all of a sudden

Bellini surely that is the job of elected politicians who are, after all, paid to deal with the aftermath of the Referendum they held.

Topcat anecdotes are often tailored to the views of those who hold them. But your surveys are real, are they, surely they rely on the very same anecdotal evidence you are dismissing.

Fishsea All the farmers I know export their high quality meat - mainly EU but also Japan (under EU agreements). They also export high quality dairy products for luxury items. Subsidies are going to be needed post Brexit to support these farmers. But perhaps they might just sell their land off to housing developers instead.

"But your surveys are real, are they, surely they rely on the very same anecdotal evidence you are dismissing"

How is research that has methodology set out clearly the same as anecdotal evidence?

So if you go look at the the studies I have used: The Bank of England study on wages and immigration, the Nuffield College Oxford study on NHS impact, UCL study on wages, LSE on impact of immigration and more. They all use quantifiable data, not opinions, in order to come to their conclusions. Not surveys of what people think.

GO look at the Nomisweb data on pay in Boston lincs, and you'll note that it has always been between 8 -12% lower ( as it is now) than the surrounding area and the rest of the UK, mainly cause of the higher number of CDE jobs, and lower number of professional roles in the area. Go look at the Boston town council reports on the impact of immigration on schools, which go against the "stretched resources" idea.

But you won't, because all of this challenges your position. What its easier to do is to go with what someone else has said.

Topcat and all of the above have vested interests. You are naive if you think otherwise

Except that we don't produce anything close to enough of it, so the price of the crap stuff will increase because demand will outstrip supply.

Except that you're wrong. We import less than 10% of our total consumption of dairy products. We export nearly as much. British farmers could easily increase production if there was a market for it, there's just no point trying to compete for the bottom of the market where fractions of a penny per litre make the difference. We all like our Brie to be French and our Edam to be Dutch so we're happy buying them. Our best known and top-selling butter brand is Danish but we'd happily buy British if Lurpak cost 30% more wouldn't we?

I looked at Nomis as you suggested Topcat but couldn’t get past the fact that there are over 3 million economically inactive households in the UK. Also the stats for my London Borough were out by a couple of hundred thousand.

All the farmers I know export their high quality meat - mainly EU but also Japan (under EU agreements). They also export high quality dairy products for luxury items. Subsidies are going to be needed post Brexit to support these farmers. But perhaps they might just sell their land off to housing developers instead.

Last time I checked UK produced beef wasn't a dairy import!

We were talking about dairy prices apparently 'rocketing' because of import tariffs, and us allegedly not being self-sufficient. The vast majority of the UK's dairy consumption comes from UK farms and we could easily produce more.

I'm a remainer by the way and I can see many problems ahead - but the price (or availability) of cheddar really isn't one of them. For once it is something that deserves a 'Project fear' tag.

If you drive into the countryside, especially East and West Sussex you would be forgiven for thinking farmers had already sold their land to developers. Lots of new towns in the way to the coast

I can’t blame farmers for selling their land. After all they’ve been driven into the ground by cheap imports and then paid money ‘not’ to farm.

I would be fucked off by the whole thing and want our

Yeah, that’s why more farmers favoured Brexit than didn’t..... they must have “startling low intellects” too

Er, werent brexiteersmaking noises about buying New Zealand lamb and American chicken? How will that benefit British farmers?

Cattle are used in the production of dairy. Some cattle are much better than others as well with regard to breed.

Cows and cattle. One is female and the other is male. Premium comes from the same herd.

Hope that clears up the matter.

If so much land has already been sold off to developers and more still to come, how is the UK going to be self sustainable?

It isn't is the brutal answer.

We will have to rely on imports.

I'm still waiting for a Leave voter to tell me how our lives are going to change for the better in a tangible way on 30 March.

Cattle are used in the production of dairy. Some cattle are much better than others as well with regard to breed.

Cows and cattle. One is female and the other is male. Premium comes from the same herd.

That's right dear.