My 3 year old is saying that his Grandad hit him in the face?

[GrandpaTroubles]

Hello.

I need to preface this first by giving a little bit of history. My dad has always had a terrible temper. I was fearful of him growing up as he would often get very OTT angry at me and my mum. A simple disagreement would lead to him exploding in swear words. He has also been known to lash out when something accidentally happens to him, or he feels embarrassed. There have been a few incidents where he hit me, but this was when I was a teenager.

A recent example: he was trying to fix a door in his house, I didn't realise and I started opening the door which hurt him. He swore at me nastily and slammed the door back in my face. I was shocked and this caused me to cry.

I have never seen him behave this way towards his grandchildren, ever. We are staying over there this evening. I sent my son down to say goodnight to him so I did not witness what happened next.

I heard my dad make a strange 'OW' sound and then my son cried uncontrollably. I did not hear my dad telling my son off, but he could have told him off more with an angry face IFYSWIM? My son told me immediately afterwards (through tears and crying), that grandad had told him off and I went downstairs to sort it out. Apparently my son had accidentally hit my dad in the face with a plastic garden toy and he had told him off. My son didn't mention anything about hitting at this point.

When me and my son got upstairs I then asked him what happened, and he maintained that he did hit grandad accidentally with the plastic toy but he said that grandad hit him in the face! He has said this to me a couple of times since. My dad has been unusually nice since, almost as though he feels guilty.

I have not confronted him. I don't really know what to do as I know that sometimes 3 year olds can tell tales, but my son is not known for making things up and I know my dad's tendencies. My mum is coming home in a bit and she is going to confront him instead of me.

Does anyone know a situation where a 3 year old has made such claims up totally out of the blue? My gut feeling is telling me that my son is telling the truth, in which case I have no idea what to do. We are supposed to be going on holiday in a couple of weeks and no doubt if this comes out it will be horrendous. I will not be able to stand by and let him look after my son alone again

Hi OP,

I can't imagine what your going through, I hope you feel all the support on this thread - we're all rooting for you to do the right thing, stick up for yourself and not accept this treatment any more...

It could be an amazing turning point for you, your self esteem, and as a mother to your DS who needs you to protect him as he is unable to protect himself. I just keep thinking of him excitedly going to his Dear Grandad and being hit violently - it must have absolutely crushed him to see his Grandad like that - probably an angry face too. Such a scary ordeal.

I can imagine the responses on this thread must be quite disorientating when you've had a lifetime of normalising your father's abuse while your mother stands by and allows it or excuses it.

Abuse isn't less abusive if it's fortnightly. It's still abuse. And I expect it still affected you in between flare ups, not knowing when it would next happen.

Moving in with your friend is a really brave step, but the right thing to do.

Domestic abuse includes abuse perpetrated by family members against other adult family members, ie. you. Therefore Women's Aid are there if you need advice or support even if this current incident was directed at your child. 0808 2000 247

I went on the Freedom Programme for different reasons, but it's not uncommon for women in circumstances like yours to attend. It really helped me make sense of how my dad had behaved when I was growing up, how my mum responded, and generally the whole toxic environment.

If you're feeling confused and overwhelmed, which would be understandable, and not quite sure how to make sense of this or how much weight to give to any viewpoint, I really would encourage you to consider attending Freedom. Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

It's totally confidential, it's information not therapy, and nobody will judge you.you don't have to stand up in front of people and share your lifestory, you can just sit and listen, but equally if there are things you want to share or questions you want to ask there is space to do that. It's 12 weeks, 2 hours per week in small women-only groups. There's no fee to attend, and lots of them take place with a crèche running alongside.

They don't advertise where they take place, so you have to contact them to get a space, but that's to protect confidentiality and make sure it's safe for everyone who needs to to attend.

Longer term it might help you get some clarity and control over this situation, and confidence in your own judgement.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising, but I really admire your courage in taking such decisive action in response to this. Given your upbringing and the way all of this behaviour has been minimised and excused to you it must have been a really difficult thing to do. You have good instincts, and your response to this will have had a positive impact on your son. You've shown him that you will protect him and that he doesn't deserve to be hurt.

Abuse isn't less abusive if it's fortnightly.

So true.

It's in your power to break this cycle and protect your son. You know this. The next time he loses his temper it might not be an injury you are able to minimise.

Don’t make your son repeat this to your mum. When he’s in bed tonight speak to your father calmly. Then never leave your son alone with your dad again.

The funny thing about people who ‘can’t control their tempers’ is than when in a rage they never break their own irreplaceable items. It’s never their phone that gets smashed. Maybe the family laptop or tv gets damaged meaning they now ‘have to watch sports at the pub/ finish the work at Jimmy’s house’.

They never lose their temper at the big bloke who told them the car will need a new Falange costing £800 and lash out and hit them.

They never lash out and hit their boss when they are told they have been made redundant. They never lash out and smack the policeman who gave them a speeding ticket. They never lash out and smack the postman who woke them up on night shift...

It’s almost as if they CAN control themselves.
It’s almost as if they only target those smaller and weaker than themselves, who can’t hit back.

It’s funny how it never happens where they think witnesses would call them out on their behaviour, such as during a parent teacher conference they never hit anyone when given bad news.

It’s almost as if they use anger and violence as a tool to get what they want and to control other people through fear.

It’s almost as if they actually know exactly what they are doing.

My father had an explosive temper and would take his anger out on inanimate objects like your father and the watering can. He shouted and swore and sulked so we often lived on eggshells. He believed that men who hit women and children were the lowest of the low so there wasn't that but the emotional abuse has stayed with me into my late 50s ,even though I knew he loved us completely.

HOWEVER, he got worse with age, as though his filters had gone. I was abused regularly in public - one time I fled in tears to the ladies in a restaurant and he sent a waitress in after me. Your father is likely to get far worse with age and have less control of his temper. Do you really want your precious child faced with that?

My mum is still insistent that most men have an aggressive streak
Your mother is ignorant and so far off the mark, that the mark is no longer visible. I have lots of male family members, friends, friends' husbands and acquaintances. They would all rather cut off their right arm than behave aggressively or abusively to a child (or adult).

Your mother is an abuser, just like your father. She stood by and allowed and enabled her thug of a husband to abuse her/their children. Now you are set to continue the cycle of abuse by allowing them to have access to your child.

Reread your posts, and see how you're minimising all the abuse your father dealt on you, and is now continuing on your vulnerable child.

The only way to protect your son is to cut these people out of your life.

OP, what a terrible situation for you. I am not going to say what others have said in that I don't think you need to cut your parents out of your lives. You clearly love them and they love you - it sounds as though they are the product of their own dysfunctional upbringings as, in a sense, we all are.

BUT, you have had a warning, so take heed. Don't leave your son alone with your father and don't rely on your parents for childcare.

Totally agree with the poster above. I feel for your Mum a bit in this situation too but you definitely need to find alternative childcare plans now. My daughter stepped on my foot three times by accident yesterday. She is 9 but is tall and has size 5 feet and each time it bloody hurt as I was wearing sandals. Your Dad would flipped out in this situation, I just tried to impress upon her to be more careful. The person who said kids hurt you all the time by accident was right, you just can’t trust him. I am so so sorry for you though, this must be such a hard and horrible and confusing time, especially if your Mum and Dad are sorry etc. Be strong and make sure your son knows what is really normal behaviour from a carer, not what was just normal to you. Good luck with everything.

Exactly, exactly, what shiny says....

These 'angry' men rarely break their own stuff/hit people bigger than them...

This anger isn't 'out of control', it's purely functional.... A way of showing power nd control....

My mum grew up in another time and another part of the country when it was the 'norm' as she puts it

Yes, my DM was regularly belted (buckle end not strap end), and my GF had to lock my GM in the cellar “to stop her killing them” on a couple of occasional when she really lost her temper. DM smacked me, and I remember feeling terrified of her when she properly lost her temper.

But she knows that isn’t acceptable these days, and I cannot imagine her hitting DS. I certainly can’t imagine her hitting him in the face, and I would go NC with her if she did.

You DF’s “oh the toy might have accidentally hit him in the face” story is bollocks, and you know it. That isn’t what your son said, that doesn’t fit with what you heard, and it doesn’t fit with the first version of lies your DF told you. He hit your child in the face, on purpose, because he was annoyed with him.

SoShiny is 100% spot on.

Hello.

Thank you for all of your responses. You have really helped me to put things in perspective and I have come to the realisation of the weekend that what I went through as a child was indeed abuse. I had never thought about it in that way before, I suppose the shouting/swearing and occasional being hit/threat of became normalised.

I have had further conversations with my parents since being at my friends. I told my dad is no longer allowed to look after my son on his own. Surprisingly, he actually agreed with me this time rather than minimising what had happened.

My father also announced, nastily I might add, that him and my mother were breaking up. They have said this numerous times in the past, it never happens, no doubt that was a manipulation tactic of some sort.

I feel deeply sorry for my mother as she has had to put up with this for years and she is a victim herself, regardless of what she inadvertently put me through. She has never known any different and was terribly abused as a child. This is going to effect her relationship with her grandson too, and despite the way it may come across on this thread, they absolutely adore each other.

You have been so courageous for yourself and your son's sake, OP. Its so hard to stand up and break the cycle, as you've done, so good on you for doing it! It's a huge thing Be proud of yourself. It's good to hear you have a support system in your friends, too.

Tell your mum you 100% support her if they do break up. Find a childminder or nursery where you can use your son's funded hours.

My mum knows she has support, I’ve told her so many times to leave him and that I will be there for her all the way.

The issue is she is in the cycle of abuse herself, worse than me as she took the brunt, and it’s all she has ever known. They’ve been together for 30 years. I don’t think she will ever leave.

There is very few options when abuse is uncovered, we have a duty to protect our children. My "D"SS is NC because he got caught abusing my ds when ds was a similar age as your son. He never did it in front of us and we trusted him to be alone with his little brother. It was like Jekyll and Hyde! Nice caring brother versus an abusing monster. The day I found out about the abuse and drew a timeline I saw the pattern. Our son was always far more aggressive after being with his brother and do some right nasty stuff. We know why now, but I must admit that I did see the signs, I just couldn't get evidence or know exactly who/what caused the issues with ds when he was little. Terrible 2s and 3s didn't help either. It was their sister that had witnessed this that told us what was going on. DS does not remember his brother or even knows that he has one anymore.

I think quite honestly it may be too late for your mum to leave - there's too much for her to face up to, and process, and I can imagine she would rather bury her head in the sand and placate him. After a lifetime of normalising abuse, it can be too much to acknowledge it for what it is.
It's not too late for you and your son, though. Hopefully she may still be able to have a relationship with your son, away from your father, if she can make that possible and you want to. But your son not being exposed to potential abuse is first and foremost.
You've made some really fantastic first steps here, and both you and your son will benefit greatly from it, although it will be very hard for you in the short term, I'm sure.

Well, that's a unexpected turn of events - your father agreeing that he shouldn't look after your son. Perhaps he has realised that he isn't capable. That's one good thing I guess?

Regarding them breaking up - I think you should just say that you don't want to be involved, tell your mother you will be there to support if it actually happens, but you want no part of the wrangling.

Well done for addressing it OP, and I’m afraid I don’t think you can ever trust your mum with your DS either as she has a very warped perception of normal.

Your dad grew up to think abuse is normal and to be an abuser. You’ve grown up thinking this is normal too. You can’t let this play out again with your son so that he thinks it’s normal to assault his own wife and children too.

Please listen to your son.
Don't let him grow up thinking you won't take his side or believe in him, he may not tell you things if he believes that.

Just been reading your updates.

No man in my life ever hit me EVER.
My mother did, but that's a whole other story.

He hit a defenceless 3 year old! No excuse. Did he apologise to your son?

Your mum is being a twat - maybe she's afraid of his reaction...?

And reading he has said they're breaking up - it looks like he is controlling / manipulative of her.

Well done Op! You're doing really well. Stay strong.
Make sure to speak to your DS and explain that GD should not have hit him and it's never ok to be hit. You might need to prepare him for being manipulated. Eg along the lines of: I'm sorry, but it wasn't so bad was it DS? You shouldn't have made such a big fuss with mummy. Now we don't get to spend time together because of what you said etc

Talk to your mum about the freedom program as well as this could help her see how her life has been and help her move on.