My 3 year old is saying that his Grandad hit him in the face?

[GrandpaTroubles]

Hello.

I need to preface this first by giving a little bit of history. My dad has always had a terrible temper. I was fearful of him growing up as he would often get very OTT angry at me and my mum. A simple disagreement would lead to him exploding in swear words. He has also been known to lash out when something accidentally happens to him, or he feels embarrassed. There have been a few incidents where he hit me, but this was when I was a teenager.

A recent example: he was trying to fix a door in his house, I didn't realise and I started opening the door which hurt him. He swore at me nastily and slammed the door back in my face. I was shocked and this caused me to cry.

I have never seen him behave this way towards his grandchildren, ever. We are staying over there this evening. I sent my son down to say goodnight to him so I did not witness what happened next.

I heard my dad make a strange 'OW' sound and then my son cried uncontrollably. I did not hear my dad telling my son off, but he could have told him off more with an angry face IFYSWIM? My son told me immediately afterwards (through tears and crying), that grandad had told him off and I went downstairs to sort it out. Apparently my son had accidentally hit my dad in the face with a plastic garden toy and he had told him off. My son didn't mention anything about hitting at this point.

When me and my son got upstairs I then asked him what happened, and he maintained that he did hit grandad accidentally with the plastic toy but he said that grandad hit him in the face! He has said this to me a couple of times since. My dad has been unusually nice since, almost as though he feels guilty.

I have not confronted him. I don't really know what to do as I know that sometimes 3 year olds can tell tales, but my son is not known for making things up and I know my dad's tendencies. My mum is coming home in a bit and she is going to confront him instead of me.

Does anyone know a situation where a 3 year old has made such claims up totally out of the blue? My gut feeling is telling me that my son is telling the truth, in which case I have no idea what to do. We are supposed to be going on holiday in a couple of weeks and no doubt if this comes out it will be horrendous. I will not be able to stand by and let him look after my son alone again

Let me put this into context for you.
I have 4 brothers; all fathers and grandfathers. I’ve been married twice and made two men fathers.
My own father is an active grandad.

None of these men have an aggressive streak. Not one.

Now you're minimising OP.

Do you live with your parents? You need to make arrangements to leave

Yes I do live with them. I have friends who I have arranged to stay with temporarily.

I know how persuasive and familiar your own family environment is. Because it’s what you’ve known, it’s your normal

I also know how extreme mumsnet can feel with its ‘ltb’ And ‘go no contact’.

But it isn’t normal for adults not to be able to manage and regulate their emotions so they don’t lash out verbally or physically. Some adults haven’t mastered this but most have. This was your DFs response to an accident with a plastic toy. What if your DS is purposefully cheeky to him?

You are teaching your DS that it’s ok to hurt people and it’s ok for him to be hurt.

There are other childcare solutions.

She said she suspects that most people's dads have an aggressive streak and she has seen many of her friends dads/grandads behave in a similar way

I have 9 men in my immediate family. All of them are very aggressive and we are from one of the roughest places in the country. This is old fashioned but they have never, ever laid hands on a woman and they would take down any man who did. They would consider any man who did this a coward and would give them a taste of their own medicine.

Your father is a coward who hurts people smaller and weaker than him. Your mother is equally as abusive for letting him do it to you and your DS. Now it looks like there is a vacancy and you have a choice whether to take her place or walk out.

Th above poster is right in that if your DS goes to school with a mark on him it will be noted. My school notes down all marks on the DC and ask then where they got them. even ones they pick up in the playground. Schools now teach DC about abuse and how to report it, even at the youngest ages. If he says GP hit him they will be all over you like a rash.

Just seen your update about staying with friends and that you live with them normally. Well done. This must be so stressful for you but the action of staying with friends shows your DPs you are taking this seriously xx

It’s really difficult to question how you were brought up and then effectively reject it, especially when that involves abuse.

You sort of mentally protect yourself by telling yourself it is ok, you minimise it because the reality is quite shocking.

It’s time now for you to take the step of acknowledging that, you know what, this isn’t right. Deep down you know it.

You can overcome practicalities like who looks after your child. Plenty of people don’t have parents to watch their children, they pay for childcare.

It’s a massive mental strain but one day - and your dad hitting your son should be that day - you will be able to walk away from your parents. They are not entitled to a relationship with you or your child when they act like this.

He didn't purposefully hit my son in the face, not that it matters

Sorry but I don’t believe it. He says it may or may not have done. He would have known if he hit him or not.

You’re minimising sadly.

If he didn't do it on purpose (a likely story) then think about it - if he hadn't lost control of his temper he wouldn't have "accidentally" hit your son with the toy would he? All I can add to the above is don't bring your son up in the same atmosphere of abuse and denial that you were.

Oh OP read back your own posts - you're really trying hard to explain this away and minimise it - your father snapping fortnightly becomes monthly which then becomes a couple of times a year in your last few posts. It makes your mum feel bad because she exposed you to abuse - well yes she did and that is the truth, she should indeed feel bad about it. It's a horrible truth to face for her.

You are doing the right thing keeping your son away from your parents. You aren't being over dramatic. Most men are not like this and the few who are like this, particularly to their innocent children and grandchildren, are violent domestic abusers.

I know this is so hard to hear - we are all here to support you sweetheart

My arse does he not remember. 'May or may not'. Bullshit. He knows what happened.

Well done for making alternative arrangements OP.

If you don’t mind me asking are you quite young?

Once you’re safely at friends, ring NSPCC and/or women’s aid for advice on long term solutions.

She feels like a terrible parent because she is a terrible parent, and now she's a terrible grandparent. It doesn't matter if hitting your three year old was deliberate or not - he hit your three year old. Neither of them see a problem with that, or apparently with hitting you in the face wih the door. So they will do it again and again, to you and your child - and if you allow that to happen then you will also be a terrible parent, and so the cycle will continue. OP, you know this is wrong - make it stop now, for your son's sake and yours.

What a pity. I think you need to explain to your parents the effect that the violence had on you and tell them your dad will need to address this part of himself thoroughly (and move on from it completely) in order for a relationship with your ds to be the right thing for him.

You need to tell your mum she is utterly wrong about most men being unable to control themselves like this.

Just seen your update - well done, OP.

My mum grew up in another time and another part of the country when it was the 'norm' as she puts it. When I had a conversation with her about it last night she said that her dad used to hit her, she witnessed her uncles hitting her nieces etc. That was the 'way' she grew up.

My mum says she does see a problem with it and she knows that his behaviour is not normal, but in the same breath she says I should leave my son with him today as my dad will be on his 'best behaviour'. She says my dad has 'always been this way' and would rather put hot coals in his eyes before he went to counselling. I have always trusted my mum and had a close relationship with her but after reading this thread I am very unsure.

Stay strong. If he'd rather put hot coals in his eyes before considering change, then he's made his decision. If she's supporting that, then she's made her decision. They may agree there's a problem but they won't look at solutions. That's all you need to know. The status quo is more imprtant to them that your child.

It sounds like you rely on them way too much, living with them and they provide childcare etc. I think this is skewing your perception somewhat.

Obviously your mum is making excuses for him. She is deluded in her thinking that ALL men have an aggressive streak, they don't.

This is a really tough situation for you, I can tell you're frightened. It radiates through your posts.

I also had a Dad with an explosive temper, intolerant and no patience. He wasn't one for hitting but I learned very early in life, not to express too many opinions and NEVER to question him. He hates being told he's wrong etc.

As a result, I don't have much to do with him and he will never look after my children, despite offering. I can't trust him and I know he would blow up at them. So, it won't ever happen.

She should feel like a terrible abusive parent, she bloody well is one! The fact she would take her own need to deny this over your son's safety means she is a terrible grandparent too and can't be trusted.

Can you look for somewhere to live, get some support from womens aid since your dad is abusive and violent? Please dont minimise this when people ask you why you have left, i know from friends experience that that's natural to want to do sometimes. But That way leads to them bringing in ignorant flying monkeys.

If he didn't do it on purpose, surely he'd have been mortified and told you what had happened. Eg "He whacked me with a toy spade, I went to take it from him and accidentally caught him with it - I'm sorry" sort of thing?

For example - I biffed my 6 year old in the face the other day. She was about to topple off a chair, I instinctively went to grab her to stop her falling and, in doing so, ended up whipping her round the nose with the sock I had in my other hand at the time. One of those bizarre accidents. I apologised to her and we had a bit of a laugh about it - "Mummy biffed me" etc. And she was still chuckling about it when DH came home, so I made sure he knew the full story. One of those things. Nothing to worry about. What strikes me as odd here is that your father didn't tell you at the time, but tried to cover it up. And that your mum is classing it as "one of those things" rather than as an accident.

Have you considered consoling for yourself, to understand this and work out this for yourself?

I suspect your mum is trying to (maybe subconsciously) protect herself in pacifying your dad, if she has borne the brunt of things in the past, as she knows he'll be unhappy with not seeing your son so much. But it's your job as parent to protect him from being in a position where he may we'll get hit again, and again, on an unpredictable basis. Do you walk on eggshells around him? So you want that for your son? It doesn't sound like it, and well done for looking at moving out.

Going off your dad's temper issues and past hitting, then I'd be as stuck as you as to knowing what is true and what isn't, and probably inclined to believe child, but you are right, they can sometimes tell lies from absolutely nowhere at this age.
At nursery recently my DS (also 3) has been learning about feelings, so they went round the group to ask what makes them happy and and what makes them sad, when it got to my DS he apparently told everyone that it makes him sad and cry when I push him and pull his hair. I was mortified when they told me this, I have never and would never dream of doing such a thing to my DS. The nursery were very kind and acted like they didn't read too much into what he said, but I imagine they're keeping a close eye on him now and tbh I'd expect nothing less as they obviously can't just take my word for it.

I understand why you are so conflicted with knowing what is the truth right now, but confronting your dad (or having your mum do so) is the best thing, because even if you never get to the bottom of what really happened, at least your dad will always know that your son will tell you, so if he did or didn't do it, he may be much less likely to lose his temper so easily in the future.

It only needs to happen once for it to change everything. What if the next time he sees red, he wallops your son across the head. He's a grown man and your son is 3 - the outcome of that could be very serious. And it just needs to happen once. So the whole "its not a regular occurence" means nothing... It doesn't need to be regular.

If your dad has gotten to this age and still cannot control himself, and also doesn't want to try then I'm afraid it's pointless even trying to think about a way forward. You just need to leave and allow only supervised contact. Do not leave him with your mum there, as she doesn't see any problems so she'd just go out and leave him with your dad.

OP, I see two main problems with this. One is that young children accidentally hurt and embarrass the adults they are with all the time. My kids are clumsy and often hurt me, sometimes to the point of bringing tears to my eyes. It's really common. Plus, kids are embarrassing. My kids point out stupid mistakes I've made, say tactless things about me and other people, laugh at me, etc. (This makes them sound horrors, but they are not - they're just little and still learning. I correct them every time but it still happens). If your dad is looking after your son then this is going to happen, again and again. If he 'can't remember' what happened when your son accidentally hit him with a toy, you've no way of knowing what will happen next time. You simply can't trust him.

The other thing is that if you stay and allow your father to look after your son again, you're telling your son, "It's OK if people hurt you. Adults can do what they want because they're more important than you. I believe their word over yours anyway. If someone hurts you, it's bad luck if you feel bad about it, because we just pretend it didn't happen."

I'm really sorry that you're in this situation and it must be terribly hard for you because of how you've been brought up. But you have to act, so your son doesn't learn the same lessons that you have.

Thank goodness you have somewhere to go temporarily.

Your mum is enabling your father's abusive behaviour. Smacking or hurting children is the norm for her but it is not today. You know what it's like growing up with a volatile father and you should protect your son from that. Your mum might be saying this to protect her arse or may truly believe it's normal but in 2018 it's really not. Your Dad (and Mum) are not acceptable babysitters and you don't want your son to hear nonsense like all men have aggressive streaks. He could end up using that line when he's older and got into a fight.

There's no way he doesn't know if your son was hit by a flying object. No caring grandparent would forgive themselves for doing this and would have consoled a crying grandchild and called you immediately. You are scared of your father. Your father will be even scarier to a little boy. It is cruel to make him hang out with a man who could suddenly hurt him. (Once every 2-4 weeks is A LOT)