... to think my son is a psychopathic monster

[Inmyvestandpants]

My DS (age 9) was playing out with his sister this afternoon in the paddling pool, with the hose etc. I went out after half and hour or so and discovered DD in the guinea pig run, cradling two very wet guinea pigs. It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc. When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I was appalled. I made a big deal about how pets are for us to care for, and he had been very cruel to them. He says he didn't think about the fact they were frightened and cold, he was just bored.

I made him tidy his room (to get him out of the way while I calmed down a bit) then he had to clean and dry out the hutch, and replace all their bedding and I have banned him from playing with the hose all summer. He also has to clean out the hutch for the next six weeks. I did hear him apologising to the guinea pigs later on, and he cried about it, but I was utterly shocked by his lack of natural empathy.

What would you have done?

@Believeitornot
"The OP doesn’t know that he chased them around the hutch"

In her first post on this thread it says "It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I'm more concerned about some of the over-reactions on this thread than I am about the boy!

He sprayed some guinea pigs with a hose on a hot day, he didn't strangle them and masturbate over their corpses. Jesus Christ.

I remember jumping in the pool with my dog at the same age, I'm sure my dog wasn't overly thrilled, but I figured she would enjoy being cooled off. Last time I checked, I wasn't Jeffery Dhamer.

I think you handled the situation fine OP. If he starts dissecting road kill, or the guinea pigs end up with broken necks, than you may have a problem.

*ReanimatedSGB

I think a lot of it is about a 9 year old not understanding that spraying with water (which is a fun game for many kids, many adults and indeed many dogs) is harmful and cruel to guinea pigs. The concept that being sprayed with water is funny rather than awful is quite well entrenched, culturally. This kid is 9 and OP says he is generally within normal patterns of kindness to animals and people. It sounds like he got overexcited and overdid it.*

I agree with this. Talk of torture and sadism in this context is ridiculous.

Kids do things without a lot of thought sometimes. And they also quite often will say stupid things like I’ll stop doing this thing if you let me do this other thing. In the absence of other indicators of cruelty I think a lot of people are being completely over the top.

Oh. Bold fail.

Also agree with @TheHulksPurplePanties

Unless you know the OP personally it's unlikely you are any more informed than I about any full history. how many episodes of animal cruelty would you be prepared to let go? Personally I'd be keen to nip it in the bud and would prefer to have someone who knew what they were doing on hand to help. Therapy isn't some terrible ordeal people only undergo if they're mentally ill or criminal. You speak as if it would be some kind of major instead of a way to reassure and soothe both mother and child. And no reputable therapist would ever turn anyone who is asking for help away. You must live in a very harsh world.

As a reminder to those inclined to minimise, this is what happened:
It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

Jumping into a pool with an animal who can paddle is not the same thing at all as spraying water at small caged animals who could not get away if they were frightened or uncomfortable, which they apparently were as he chased them with the jet of water into their little hidey holes.

A dog might indeed have enjoyed being cooled off, and if he had wanted to get out and dry off he might have been able to climb out.

I think if the boy's eight-year-old sister could understand that spraying water on the GPs was a terrible idea then he should have been able to understand it too. Certainly after being told that he should stop he should have done so. He ploughed on regardless of being told by his sister - who is eight, I'll say it again - that he shouldn't and on top of that, put her in the position of choosing herself or the GPs for a dousing. Not only did the eight-year-old try to stop him, she climbed in with the guinea pigs to protect them.

We have a direct comparison of two children' choices here - and for the life of me I do not understand how posters are dismissing the actions of the older one.

OP, I would really watch out for your DS's behaviour and address immediately any controlling behaviour you see in relation to his sister.

If your efforts seem to be getting nowhere, I would investigate play therapy.

As a reminder to those inclined to minimize

Overreacting to a situation can be just as damaging, if not more so, than "minimizing".

I grew up with foster kids who had actual problems and acted out in ways far worse than spraying guinea pigs with a hose and threatening their sister with a hose. In fact, this would come under normal, average play for most 9 year old boys.

And while the 8 year old girl acted differently this time, whose to say a situation doesn't arise where she does something equally stupid. Most kids eventually do stupid shit, that they get in trouble for, and then learn not to do again.

If this was something he did all the time, sure, maybe the OP should be concerned. But as a one off. No. She handled it well, no need to call a therapist.

But how did the foster kids start out? Did they start out small? Most children who act out in a serious way do start small.

The 'boys will be boys' attitude ('this is normal, average play for 9 year old boys') makes me wonder what sort of 9 year old boys you are familiar with. It most certainly is not normal, average play for any 9 year old boy I have ever known, and I have known lots of them.

The boy's 8 year old sister knew better. She told him it wasn't right and he not only kept going, he dragged her into his 'normal, average play'. How do you explain that the 8 year old sister could see how wrong it was? Are girls actually made of sugar and spice?

If it is 'normal, average play' then the OP massively overreacted.

It's not a one off. He is controlling with his sister, according to the OP. His sister was targeted in this case too.

But how did the foster kids start out?

Abused & neglected.

So unless the OP is missing out on some details, I don't think this is much cause for concern.

Sorry, I should have said 9 year old kids will be 9 year old kids. I grew up in a rural area, and my family hunt and raise animals, so I generally saw far "worse" as part of a normal day than a wet guinea pig.

Spraying with a hose is generally considered a fun activity, he most likely thought the guinea pigs would enjoy it. Or, like many 9 year olds, he didn't think much at all and got caught up in the moment.

As for "controlling to his sister" show me an eldest child who isn't? I certainly was. And "targeted" really? She wanted to spray her with a hose! He didn't want her to help him dissect the guinea pigs!

Astonished at the reactions on here, and at the OP’s title. I feel worried for the boy, because it is his mothers wild over-reaction which is concerning.

OP I think you handled it very well, but any notion that this means anything other than an over-excited kid (who has learnt from many sources that spraying water is a fun thing to do on a hot day) being really thoughtless.

I think you need to make sure - now you’ve made him cry with guilt and given him thousands of chores to do - that he knows you still love him.

@goddessofplenty assuming you’re addressing that to me - no I don’t know OP personally. So I have to make an assumption and judgement call on what she has shared.

OP has dealt with the issue, kid is contrite and understands he did wrong. There’s nothing wrong with therapy I just think it’s a gross overreaction to this incident.

Another incident would indicate that he does not understand what is cruel and what isn’t. If he had been using a magnifying glass to burn the piggies as his first ‘offence’ then yes that would worry me. An issue like this where it’s reasonable to think ‘it’s hot and the hose is fun and cools me down’ and apply it to pets doesn’t so much.

I've always found what a Psychologist friend said re other people's behaviour very useful : "Once is happenstance. Twice (or more) is their usual pattern of behaviour." I used to teach that age group and they do get silly and over excited very easily though. He's shown remorse so I wouldn't get too worried. His sister was lovely protecting them so you are doing something right.

Spraying with a hose is generally considered a fun activity, he most likely thought the guinea pigs would enjoy it. Or, like many 9 year olds, he didn't think much at all and got caught up in the moment.

But his sister - younger than him by one year - could see that it wasn't fun for the guinea pigs and tried to stop him.

His response was to tell her that either the GPs got sprayed or she did. So he had a chance to stop, put down the hose and find something else to entertain himself with, but he did not. He chased the GPs with the hose into their hidey holes.

If the spraying looked like it might be fun, wouldn't the sister have said 'Yes please, spray me!'? It was a hot day after all.

Maybe he had the hose set to jet rather than spray? Maybe he had form for spraying directly in her face or her ears and not stopping? Maybe she knew he would have just sprayed both her and the GPs anyway despite their compromise? Maybe this was the reason she climbed in with the GPs instead?

There are details here that those minimising seem to have missed. In particular, that the sister seems to have understood that the guinea pigs should not be chased with a hose and that it was not fun.

There are details here that those minimising seem to have missed

No, the OP didn’t witness the incident so that’s all hyperbole.

As for the younger one knowing - again we don’t fully know. We only know what her take was on it. Plus, last time I checked, there isn’t a magic age when all children stop making mistakes.

I’m not minimising. I just refuse to get hysterical, suggest achild is some sort of monster when a) said child was sorry to the GPs without prompting and was upset b) the OP didn’t actually see the incident and c) he’s 9 and 9 year olds do make judgements of error

think boys are naturally like this, or they were in the past, my brother was particularly abusive and cruel, was seen as curiousity and manliness

No boys aren't naturally cruel to animals just because they are boys!

@mathanxiety maybe you’re right. But as I pointed out up thread, we can only go on the information provided.

And as for the rest of it, I agree with @Believeitornot.