... to think my son is a psychopathic monster

[Inmyvestandpants]

My DS (age 9) was playing out with his sister this afternoon in the paddling pool, with the hose etc. I went out after half and hour or so and discovered DD in the guinea pig run, cradling two very wet guinea pigs. It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc. When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I was appalled. I made a big deal about how pets are for us to care for, and he had been very cruel to them. He says he didn't think about the fact they were frightened and cold, he was just bored.

I made him tidy his room (to get him out of the way while I calmed down a bit) then he had to clean and dry out the hutch, and replace all their bedding and I have banned him from playing with the hose all summer. He also has to clean out the hutch for the next six weeks. I did hear him apologising to the guinea pigs later on, and he cried about it, but I was utterly shocked by his lack of natural empathy.

What would you have done?

My dad is a psychopath and at 11 he would shoot animals and birds with his air rifle for fun. Just sounds like he was being impulsive and got carried away. You did exactly the right thing. A direct consequence for his thoughtless actions is to learn how to look after the guinea pigs. He needs to work on empathy, but not a psychopath.

I can understand why this would worry you. Something about the situation doesn't sit right with me, the thing he said to his sister especially.
What's his home life like? Is there any possibility of bullying or abuse, away from you or closer to home? Sorry if that's an offensive question, it really isn't meant to be. Just wondering if he's acting out something which has happened to him.
For what it's worth I think you dealt with it really well, better than I would have.

If you think he's a psychopath, he'll become one. If you think he's a lovely 9 year old who simply made a mistake today (because he's 9 and still learning social skills and empathy), he'll become a lovely adult. Please please see him for what he is - a 9 year old still learning. You are teaching him really well. Please don't think him bad or he will become bad

Is this serious?

Keep an eye on him and see how he interacts with animals in future. This could be deliberate cruelty which would indeed have worrying implications, or it could be thoughtless stupidity.

(But yes, sometimes the first indication of more major problems is cruelty to animals as a child. I speak from first hand experience of this within my extended family).

It’s well intentioned but utter rubbish. Development of mental disorders doesn’t work like that.Mental disorder can’t be acquired by thinking or unthinking

If my brother was doing something at this age and I told him to stop, he'd have done it more, just to piss his sister off.

That sounds really bad, but 9 is young.

If it helps. My nephews managed to make both my cat and my Mother's hate kids for life because of their childhood antics.

Both of them turned out fine.

He did a very bad thing, but you have made him understand this and he sounds suitably contrite.

It might be, that in the heat of the moment, he didn't understand that guinea-pigs would not enjoy being sprayed with a hose in the same way that some children (and maybe some dogs) would. A child running around shrieking might be having lots of fun, but a guinea-pig doing the equivalent certainly won't be. He is young, and still learning- not a monster.

"That's worrying. I probably wouldn't leave him alone with the Guinea Pigs again to be honest."

I was going to say the same. Fine for him to be doing all the cleaning out etc. but keep him away from the guinea pigs.

@Pebblespony I was just thinking the same thing.

My brother could be so evil. He did some awful things to me when we were younger. He once held me down and filled my swimsuit with sand when we were 6 & 8 I still hate sand now. He'd try out wrestling moves on me when I wasn't expecting it. Surprised I didn't break my neck by some of his antics. He threw me in a pond, hit my head of a cupboard door, tripped me up constantly, pushed me over his leg. I'm sure there's a lot more that I've forgotten. I think that's probably why your son did it, it doesn't sound like a vendetta for guinea pigs but a need to upset his sister. I hope he's apologised to her as well as the animals. Maybe he could clean her room too!

I would be very upset and concerned by this as well I'm afraid OP.

What could have been over excited silliness on a hot day became premeditated when he told his sister to get in the cage. I wonder whether the fact that she did that do willingly is because he's been cruel before, I think I'd be asking your DD that at a quiet moment.

Keep an eye on it and keep a close eye on his behaviour with his sister and friends. Hopefully it is a one off. The only thing I can think is maybe he has seen something on TV / computer game or from another kid and that influenced him. My dc is alot younger but is always much worse behaved when around other kids who are kicking off, for example.

I do think at 9 it worrying that he would even consider being unkind to an animal. If it were my child I wouldn’t want him near them again until I was sure he could be trusted.

I think you are right to take it seriously, I know plenty of 9 year olds who would be horrid to their sister but towards an animal I think is more unusual.

Sounds like he’s more of a dog boy. children around Guinea pigs always make me feel anxious poor little things.

I would get upset at other kids salting slugs at a younger age! His sister is younger than him and she could understand it was wrong so I don't think kids are cruel is an excuse. Kids can be mean and hurtful but deliberately cruel, especially to something that can't and hasn't hurt their feelings beforehand (all the mean things I can think of were arguments with friends and sister) is alarming.

Well if that is what he does when he is bored there is something seriously wrong with him. Why didn't he go read a book? Or watch TV? Or anything that is actually interesting. What kind of 9 year old finds that entertaining? Well done for racing so well OP. Keep a good eye on it. Violence towards animals is sometimes a precursor to more vile acts.

I wonder if there have been other incidents that have made you uneasy? Because if he is usually kind, caring and empathetic, I would have assumed he had mistakenly thought it was fun for the guinea pigs rather than jumping to the conclusion he was a psychopath.

I get that you’ve dealt with his cruelness to the guinea pigs but I’m echoing others re his interaction with his sister.

He also tortured her by making her get in the cage and spraying her with water in a scenario that wasn’t ‘fun’ anymore, and it seems he has such power over her she agreed without coming to get you. He needs a punishment for cruelty to the human not just the animals.

Sibling bullying is a real thing and sadly often isn’t dealt with by parents who cant face the faff of acknowledging it. Not saying that’s you OP just that there seem to be a blind spot over harm done to his sister here.

Op,I mean this kindly.you'll get a fair smattering of psychobabble and rubbish on this thread. Some vague notions of adult psychopathy applied to a child. Children aren’t given diagnosis psychopath
Keep a gentle eye on your son. Think are there any triggers,events going on

He targeted both the guinea pigs and his sister. He said he did this because he was bored.

Some children go inside and start some other activity when bored. He was actually bored and in search of the experience of cruelty. His sister's clear admonition to stop went unheeded. He says it didn't occur to him that the guinea pigs would be cold or frightened. If he saw that as an excuse, then that is part of the problem.

I would be very concerned.
This should not have happened at nine.
There was certainly impulsiveness at play here, but also something else. What he did was cruel. A psychopath in the making? Hard to tell, without seeing a pattern. So I would stay out of sight but I would keep a close eye on your DS and especially observe his interactions with his sister.

I would not let him out of my sight when he is tending to the guinea pigs - watch without him knowing you are watching.

OP, I think you handled it well.

I hope you take your DD aside and tell her you are immensely proud of what she did today. She sounds brilliant.

Well done for not going off on him! You handled this incredibly well. I agree with PP's, no unsupervised time with the pigs for now.

Tomorrow, talk to DD away from him/home, just the two of you and see if anything similiar has happened, or if he's done anything like this before. Threatened to break something of hers to get what he wants, that kind of thing.

You can then try to work out whether this was a one off or an escalation and talk to your son and see what's going on with him. Is he angry about something that's happened and trying to take some form of control, is something going on at school?

Once you have a fuller picture, you can think about what, if anything, you need to do next.

context is everything, is he in trouble for unkindness at school? previous relationship with sister? Psychopathic monster is a bit harsh I hope it was tongue in cheek?
How do you show empathy towards him?

This behaviour would also concern me greatly.

And I agree completely with Batteriesallgone's post wrt sibling bullying.

Talk to your DD - ask her how she felt this afternoon.

Ask yourself if there is an element of 'boys will be boys' in your mindset.

OP try engaging your DS in conversation around things you see on tv or hear about on the news etc — about starving or injured kids overseas or mistreated animals ( plenty of charity appeals come through with the door) and just see how he reacts and whether he seems to be able to empathise or whether he couldn’t care less.
That should give you an insight into his way of thinking and whether you need specialist help.
Good luck