... to think my son is a psychopathic monster

[Inmyvestandpants]

My DS (age 9) was playing out with his sister this afternoon in the paddling pool, with the hose etc. I went out after half and hour or so and discovered DD in the guinea pig run, cradling two very wet guinea pigs. It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc. When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I was appalled. I made a big deal about how pets are for us to care for, and he had been very cruel to them. He says he didn't think about the fact they were frightened and cold, he was just bored.

I made him tidy his room (to get him out of the way while I calmed down a bit) then he had to clean and dry out the hutch, and replace all their bedding and I have banned him from playing with the hose all summer. He also has to clean out the hutch for the next six weeks. I did hear him apologising to the guinea pigs later on, and he cried about it, but I was utterly shocked by his lack of natural empathy.

What would you have done?

You've handled it really well op.
I would watch him very carefully though around the guinea pigs in future

Age criminal responsibility in England is 10yo

However there are procedural differences in criminal justice for children eg 10-17yo

between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime. Processed differently from adults and are subject to youth courts given different sentences.sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons

@upsideup

You said " Its also worrying that you suspect he has aspergers on top, theres some overlap between the two."

Could you please qualify that statement with some hard evidence?

I'm sick and tired of people on these forums alleging that nasty or cruel behaviour automatically means the person who carries it out is autistic.

It's yet another unfounded nasty slur on all autistic people.

How about Diabetics? Arthritics? IBS sufferers? People with high blood pressure? - no, not heard of them being lumped in with vile behaviour so why do you leap to that conclusion about autistic people?

What age would this be acceptable? Never, I should think. Love your punishment for this, it’s really appropriate to have him cleaning out the cages but do supervise and inspect it. The ban is probably over the top, it means no rockets or water balloons, watering the garden etc for him, which you might regret.

Omg someone mentioned murder!!!! Ffs...

FGS there's some extreme reactions on this thread today. Boy made a mistake, didn't think, was a bit silly, parent has enforced consequences / taken appropriate action. The end.

Did he apologise to his sister?

She was targeted too.

OP, can you relate a few examples of DS being controlling toward DD?

Erm he chased them with a hose he didn't strangle them. I work in the field and would not consider this a domestic homicide indicator. He might not have realised the harm and thought they would just get wet. Now he knows and has apologised and has a fitting punishment. I had oversight of a case last week where an eleven year old killed a cat with a firework. Now that's a concern.

When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

He asked his sister to take a dousing in order to spare the guinea pigs more.

This is a child of nine who plays power games with people. I assume the sister is younger. I may be wrong. But she has a heart and her brother does not.

Never mind the guinea pigs. I am forming the conclusion that they were collateral damage here, which is in itself very disturbing. He moved on from tormenting them and destroying their little habitat to another cruel game.

There is something very much awry in this sibling relationship.

Inmyvestandpants, if you are able to afford it, I recommend you seek play therapy for your DS. I think you need to get to the bottom of this.

I also think you need to let your DD talk to someone about her experience of life with her brother.

My brother was a bit like this as a kid. He would hit the dog with a stick if no one was looking and was always turining the hose on people.

He's a very normal and successful adult now.

I personally find the OTT conclusions coming from the armchair psychologists on this thread far more troubling than the incident itself

Possibly the most sensible post on this thread.

Why are you letting a nine year old “play with a hose” anyway? Isn’t a paddling pool enough?

He's probably seen someone play this game with dogs.

It is of course absolutely horrible behaviour. I cannot cannot conceive of any DC of ours, or any of their cousins etc, ever contemplating being cruel/vicious in such a way.

Very bad behaviour (by both children and adults) has been normalised in the U.K. by lots of instances. It’s a real issue for parents because, unless they are incredibly careful, their children come under all sorts of influences they would not conceive of and, sometimes, the children act in accordance with those bad influences and their parents are, justifiably, very shocked.

This doesn’t mean a child is a future criminal or psychopath. Just that the influences shaping his/her idea of normal behaviour need to be tightened up and monitored closely.

Seems a bit of hyperbole really. He sprated some water on some guinea pigs then threatened to spray his little sister. While not great behaviour does not deserve to be labelled a psychopath. To put it into perspective you probably all sat down later to a meat dinner where the deceased animal would have suffered a lot worse than getting a bit wet.

This boy apologised to the guinea pigs and was crying. Hardly the sign of a psychopath.

Sometimes it’s hard to gauge exactly what happened. Was it all in a matter of minutes, did the OP hear/see the whole incident or was this based on what the sibling said.

I would have had each sibling exaplin exactly what’s happened instead of taking the word of one over the other even if it’s seemingly obvious who was to blame.

I agree, I would get accounts from both children. This is the type of thing that can happen with ours if one is being too bossy/ fighting over control of the toy/ hose. He might have sprayed them to cool them or by accident then when his sister told him not to he carried on to show she is not in charge of him. Not sure if I'm explaining this well. Might be worth finding out what happened in the five minutes before the spraying of the pets started.

I would take him to a therapist if he does anything like it again. You def get my vote too for handling it well - 'callous unemotional' behaviour is, weirdly, best approached punitively but I agree with all that one episode does not a callous unemotional child make. Other signs are not caring about being punished, or especially motivated by reward either. And weirdness in drawings. This was traumatic for you all though. Talking is good

I would worry a bit about this, more depending on how long the incident continued, I suppose. I wouldn't panic. One incident isn't sufficient for me to think "psychopath". I'd just keep an eye on him. And he would be punished - probably grounded for a week, no screens.

I've worked with numerous people labelled 'psychopath' over the years. Their early life tends to be marked by significant abuse, often sexual and physical and emotional, but generally extreme physical and emotional. They also tend to have been told they are 'bad' and 'evil' from a very young age, often as a way of their parents justifying abuse. These young people learn to detach from emotions, learnt to teat others as they were treated, and grow into the 'evil' and 'bad' adults they were labelled as, as a kid.

Please never ever label a kid a psychopath, bad or evil. Prisons are full of the adults who were labelled this way as kids and grew into what they were told they were :( If a kid acts cruel, find out why and explain why the behaviour is unacceptable. But see them as what they are - kids still learning empathy and social rules, and needing guidance.

Ps. Not saying you are an abuser OP! You sound like you handled your kid well. Just don't label them and continue to be the loving parent you are, and they'll b fine!

My kids enjoy hunting each other with the hosepipe/water pistols. Maybe if he didnt realise the guinea pigs werent enjoying it, his invitation to his sister was just an invitation for her to play this game with him. Him wanting to do the same to her is only sinister if you believe he knew what he was doing was cruel.

I would take him to a therapist if he does anything like it again
Really?two incidents and it’s therapy time?
Which therapist?would you google it?ask someone else over a coffeee maybe. Yea, flat white please...btw do you know any therapist for my son?
Any reputable,qualified therapist upon meeting a boy who is usually kind,considerate but has had 1 and we are hypothesising 2 episodes of being inappropriate. Mum reports No other triggers,and no collateral from school. Therapy? They’ll kindly send you on your way,no therapy required

Yes,having worked in criminal justice,forensic and secure settings please don’t label a child
Agree wholeheartedly with ARealPsych post.
And op if your child or anyone else in family can see your posts I’d consider delete this
I understand you were still processing the event when you wrote this, but no I’d no want a child or adult in family to see it