... to think my son is a psychopathic monster

[Inmyvestandpants]

My DS (age 9) was playing out with his sister this afternoon in the paddling pool, with the hose etc. I went out after half and hour or so and discovered DD in the guinea pig run, cradling two very wet guinea pigs. It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc. When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I was appalled. I made a big deal about how pets are for us to care for, and he had been very cruel to them. He says he didn't think about the fact they were frightened and cold, he was just bored.

I made him tidy his room (to get him out of the way while I calmed down a bit) then he had to clean and dry out the hutch, and replace all their bedding and I have banned him from playing with the hose all summer. He also has to clean out the hutch for the next six weeks. I did hear him apologising to the guinea pigs later on, and he cried about it, but I was utterly shocked by his lack of natural empathy.

What would you have done?

It's obviously naughty and cruel but he's 9. Old enough to know better but hardly uncommon if some kids are immature, especially if there are some suspect social communication issues.
I think you've dealt with it fine. There is a reason that they do not diagnose children with psychopathy which is that psychopathic behaviours and children's normal behaviour overlaps so much. (They're all psychopaths)

I would recommend just watchful waiting for now. He's 9. It sounds as if this was his first time being cruel. If he does continue to do cruel things, then I would suggest getting him some help.

Cross post Lipstick. The obscene nature of the incident dwarfs any so-called characteristic kindness. This is deeply disturbed behaviour. Completely wrong to minimise it. It's seriously unusual.

When seeking to understand an unsavoury incident Godot one doesn’t escalate violence
Adult should have ability to understand a 9yo is not fully aware of actions/consequences
And the mum has said it’s uncharacteristic

Stop demonising a child on one solitary post about an uncharacteristic incident

Any normal 9 year old should certainly understand the cruelty of that action Lipstick. I think the problem here is that the kid isn't normal, so the OP should probably seek help rather than brush the obvious problem under the carpet.

Lipstick the incident was vile. The OP didn't need to post and has asked opinions. Mine, as an experienced mother, is that she needs to seek help to find out what's wrong. Those poor little pigs.

He did a stupid thing but he does sound truly contrite rather than just putting on a show of sadness. The fact he apologised to the guinea pigs of his own violation and without knowing you were observing shows that he does regret his actions.
Kids do sometimes go too far because they don't fully understand the consequences of their actions.
You've told him his behaviour was wrong, he has understood and accepted it, I wouldn't worry any more.

I think a lot of it is about a 9 year old not understanding that spraying with water (which is a fun game for many kids, many adults and indeed many dogs) is harmful and cruel to guinea pigs. The concept that being sprayed with water is funny rather than awful is quite well entrenched, culturally. This kid is 9 and OP says he is generally within normal patterns of kindness to animals and people. It sounds like he got overexcited and overdid it.

I personally find the OTT conclusions coming from the armchair psychologists on this thread far more troubling than the incident itself.

I’m not disputing it was cruel,but as a stand alone act it’s poor judgement
It’s not indicative of needing help,seeing someone,therapy.it doesn’t met any threshold
More shocking is the rush to apply a label, or give him a slap rhetoric

Ok with the update i genuinely don't understand the point of your post?

NO, NO, NO.
OP. I think you managed really well but worried about threat over sister? I'm talking horrible even at that age because.

I'm a fanatic defender of animals but in fairness, he was outside on a hot day, when he felt very hot and wet the guinea pigs. I have guinea pigs - it's not good for them - but he's only 9.

He was thoughtless, unkind, mean, but no more than that. It was a moment of madness. This is why we have a minimum age of criminal responsibility.

Was he maybe doing it to guilt trip your DD into playing with him? "I won't stop unless you let me spray you" is so very different than (for example) "Well I asked you to play with the hose and you said no."

Igorina I'm no armchair psychologist I'm simply saying how disturbed I'd have been had any one of my eight DC ever done such a thing to any of our eleven guinea pigs. I'd have been left cold with worry about what was going on with them that they'd do such a thing - really decidedly rattled.

I wish more parents were able to think of their children this way, without minimising or ignoring terrible behaviour because they dont want to believe their child has a problem and if more did we wouldnt have so many cruel adults in the world. Only adults can be labeled as psycopaths but children can have psycopathic traits which with can be grown out of with the right parenting and support.
I think your ds does have the warning signs definately and you need to seek support to help correct them, what he did was calculated and cruel and not at all excusable due to his age. His acting sorry to you could all just be an act, why was he unbothered when he saw dd was upset by it? Its also worrying that you suspect he has aspergers on top, theres some overlap between the two.

It is always interesting that we higher primates can rationalise the abuse of a lower primate but get tremendously upset when it is suggested that the same activity is inflicted upon the abuser. He deliberately tortured an animal. That is utterly inexcusable and if a swift slap stops the little shit doing it again, it’s all to the good. I’m not saying the boy is Fred West. I am saying that a ‘naughty step’ approach isn’t punishment enough.

whoa - some of you are going way overboard here!

Look at it from a 9 year olds view - playing with water is fun and a game. As an adult we know that its cruel but doesn't mean he did.

If he is otherwise kind then I don't think anyone should be jumping to any kind of conclusions. The boy is 9 - kids do stupid things all the time.

Quite so. My DC have been capable of spectacular quarrels amongst themselves but this is different - sadistic. Sadism shouldn't be minimised - there's a reason for it.

He just got carried away. He’s nine.

Quite so upsideup and Godot, not Hanna.

Godot You’re simply just being provocative.Little shit this, torturer that

Lack of empathy, could he be slightly aspie?

Can we please not ?!!

My son is an aspie and I've never heard him scream as loud as he did when a non-aspie boy stuck a screw in a random snail just for fun. My son was upset for days at this unnecessary cruelty. Aspie kids often care deeply for animals because they relate to them more than humans.

Sorry, just wanted to clear that up.

Yes OP I would keep an eye on it. Being cruel to animals is a first step.

Your DD on the other hand, you should be proud of her. She climbed in the cage to comfort the guinea pigs. What a lovely child.

Was the hose set on high power or a low power. It's been very hot and perhaps he thought they needed cooling down? If it was high power then it's very worrying. Our hose has a mist setting which is very low power. Although it doesn't sound like that....
Kids can be thoughtless at times but he does need a shake up.

Er, yeah - because nothing is going to say " abuse of power is wrong " like you doing the very thing you're punishing him for doing ...