... to think my son is a psychopathic monster

[Inmyvestandpants]

My DS (age 9) was playing out with his sister this afternoon in the paddling pool, with the hose etc. I went out after half and hour or so and discovered DD in the guinea pig run, cradling two very wet guinea pigs. It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc. When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I was appalled. I made a big deal about how pets are for us to care for, and he had been very cruel to them. He says he didn't think about the fact they were frightened and cold, he was just bored.

I made him tidy his room (to get him out of the way while I calmed down a bit) then he had to clean and dry out the hutch, and replace all their bedding and I have banned him from playing with the hose all summer. He also has to clean out the hutch for the next six weeks. I did hear him apologising to the guinea pigs later on, and he cried about it, but I was utterly shocked by his lack of natural empathy.

What would you have done?

I'd be worried if he's bullying his sister. I'm really happy your dd told you what he said. I'd say how proud you were she told you and if there is/has been anything else to say straight away. Kids are taught to keep secrets so I'd explain that we don't keep secrets as you can say anything to your mum and will always be protected.

I Have spoken to people with zero empathy in a mental health capacity. For example, one adult who if they saw a child severly injured and crying would be annoyed to hear the crying. It's not true all people have empathy. So you teach what is wrong and right and how to act as it's not intuitive.

I wouldn't say he has zero empathy because he was crying but animal cruelty isn't great. How does he act for example if someone is ill or upset normally I wonder.

Personally I would have slapped the hell out of him.

I think you handled this well and your reaction will have hopefully helped your ds to reflect on what he did and the how it was perceived by others . However the subject of psychopathy is infinitely more complicated that 1 incident of animal “cruelty” and there is no way to make any kind of judgement on this level of information. I wonder what level of expertise some of the other posters have on the subject of psychopathy . It is inappropriate to apply any kind of label . You sound like someone who will guide their dcs very appropriately .

Honestly, if this is a one-off I wouldn't be locking up the guinea pigs for their own safety just yet.

He made bad choices today but had a parent who stepped in and handled it and from what you say he seem genuinely remorseful.

There is not one parent on this thread who doesn't have a child capable of making bad choices - It doesn't make them psychopaths or anything like it.

I would be incredibly pissed off for my pets but jumping straight to the conclusion that it was pathological. That's a huge overreaction.

I would have been chilled to the bone by this OP. I hope your DD is okay. Has DS done anything like this before now? Is their father around, what does he make of it?

Most of us have heard that psychopaths frequently have an early history of cruelty to animals (I don't actually know how true this is, though), so I can't blame you for worrying.

However, horrible though he was (and I would absolutely be upset if I were in your position), I hope you give him the chance to learn a positive lesson and move on. Don't write him off as cruel and a potential psychopath based on one incident. Watch him more closely if you feel the need, but don't distance yourself from him or make him feel like he's being punished indefinitely.

Yup, I want to teach my children not to be cruel and violent towards a vulnerable being that can't escape.

I will do this by being cruel and violent towards child that has no escape .

I'm more interested in your ability to label him a "psychopathic monster", OP. That is equally abnormal behaviour.

Its all fun and games when you chase eachother around, the pets could join in too - 9 year old brain

We have lots of sheep round here. Several teenage visitors, on seeing the sheep, have started chasing them. You see the same thing with pigeons and ducks.

Personally I would have slapped the hell out of him
I would have gone absolutely berserk at this. Cruel little fucker
So Godots,to reproach about cruelty, you’d be violent.okay cause that works
In your aerated state you have completely missed the point,and you look stupid

Thanks for all responses. My title was, admittedly, deliberately provocative. Maybe I should get a job writing headlines for the Daily Mail. I don’t actually think he’s an actual psycho. It worried me that he was cruel because it’s very out of character for him. Usually he is very kind to the guinea pigs. He’s also a big softy with his cuddly toys - of which he has scores - talking to them and snuggling them as though they have feelings. I have had to stop killing flies and spiders because it upsets him so much.

With his little sister (only one year younger) he is sometimes very cherishing and sometimes very controlling. We always make a point of admonishing any ill treatment of her. (And if she’s mean to him that is equally frowned upon.)

Any sibling bullying in our house is treated as unthinkable. I tell them their job is to stick together and care for one another, so that message is loud and clear. It’s maybe why dd didn’t tell me what he was doing with the hose. Also I wonder if she was staying near the pigs to protect them. She asked me if she did the right thing, or if she should have let him hose her to save the pigs. Obvs I said she should have come to get me.

To clarify, he didn’t make her get in the cage. DD climbed in herself to cuddle the pigs when they were cold.

Interesting point re spectrum. We do suspect he is mildly Asperger or similar but don’t feel a formal diagnosis would be helpful to him.

I’ll certainly be supervising the hutch cleaning.

And yes, my initial impulse (which I resisted) was to turn the hose on him!

Yes, it's very popular in films to throw out the animal cruelty thing when painting the 'psycho killer' picture for the audience.

I honestly hope that no one would seriously consider this one incident to be an actual indication that this boy is a psychopath in any way shape or form.

At 9 kids can be found guilty of murder. 9 is not too young to know that this action was wrong. I’d be concerned and watch him more closely in future. I wouldn’t say he’s a psychopathic monster, but it certainly sounds like he has issues with empathy.

Perhaps I do. Alternatively perhaps I have the ability to place myself in the position of another sentient being which has being terrorised without provocation. Whilst I
appreciate my words seem harsh the situation still stands. A 9 year old knows right from wrong. The demonstrated that by being capable of threatening his sister to ensure she kept quiet. Why on earth should that be tolerated, accepted and excused. I’d remove him from any contact with any animal.

Ok,what’s encouraging is he is usually a kind sensitive boy,this was uncharacteristic

Spend a bit more time finding out where he got the idea from. He might have got it from YouTube or some game like Minecraft. My suspicion is he needs to change his media habits.

Personally I would have slapped the hell out of him. Can not abide cruelty to animals.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand the odd smack when all else has failed, more to shock and then talk but this, this is excessive. How can you say no cruelty to an animal and then “slap the hell” out of him about your own son? I don’t think it warrants that. Smacking should never be the go to only as a last resort.

Godots,Love of animals doesn’t mean you inflict cruelty upon those who mistreat animals
A 9 year old knows right from wrong actually no.thats not a given.depends on the child.the situation.the choice.and what’s beinf deemed right or wrong

Hmm. Bottom line is that is was astonishingly cruel of him. I think there probably is something wrong. We had lots of guineas when the DC were young and however quarrelsome my DC were with each other there's absolutely no way I could conceive of a single one of them (and there's eight - four boys, four girls) ever having done what your DS did. He does actually sound somewhat disturbed. At the very very least unhappy or angry. I think you should ask for outside medical or psychological advice.

Cani just say, despite being a massive animal lover, that I got into trouble for the same thing at around the same age when I was a kid. I have no idea why I thought it was funny to spray cold water over my Guineas pigs but despite it being 30 years ago I just didn't think. But I will always remember my mums lecture and telling me how cruel it was - I felt terrible and never did it again! I really just didn't think.

He tortured 2 animals. Tortured them. What part of that is acceptable?

I think there probably is something wrong. You absolutely don’t know that
Did you read op said this this uncharacteristic,hes a kind boy

Usually kind, sensitive boys do not all of a sudden become viciously cruel to helpless animals. This really is quite revolting. The boy needs help.