... to think my son is a psychopathic monster

[Inmyvestandpants]

My DS (age 9) was playing out with his sister this afternoon in the paddling pool, with the hose etc. I went out after half and hour or so and discovered DD in the guinea pig run, cradling two very wet guinea pigs. It turned out that DS had turned the hose onto the guinea pigs, chasing them all around their hutch and into their little hidey holes etc. When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

I was appalled. I made a big deal about how pets are for us to care for, and he had been very cruel to them. He says he didn't think about the fact they were frightened and cold, he was just bored.

I made him tidy his room (to get him out of the way while I calmed down a bit) then he had to clean and dry out the hutch, and replace all their bedding and I have banned him from playing with the hose all summer. He also has to clean out the hutch for the next six weeks. I did hear him apologising to the guinea pigs later on, and he cried about it, but I was utterly shocked by his lack of natural empathy.

What would you have done?

You handled it a lot better than I would have done. I'm afraid I would have turned the hose on him!

I would expect most 5 years olds to know this is cruel. it wasn't just a hose down he enjoyed watching them run scared.

I think you handled it perfectly, imnsurenit was just a very stupid moment and he has learnt from it but i would deff watch his behaviour to others, esp thouse younger to him

I can remember when I was slightly younger putting my rabbit in the fishpond to see if she could swim. Stupid, thoughtless thing to do and I did pull her out quite quickly when I realised she didn’t look happy. I promise I’ve turned into a kind, thoughtful person.

Having said that, I often think that society as a whole has an idea that children are inherently kind and this isn't always true.

So true. Children are just humans, only young ones. People don't suddenly become nasty when they turn 16, having been angels before then. The many many unpleasant adults we meet on a regular basis were very often pretty unpleasant as children too.

As for excusing this because he was bored- that's even more disturbing. I'm bored. I know, I will go and torture some defenceless creatures to amuse myself. The more I think about it, the less normal this is.

Please don’t casually apply pejorative labels to a child
For reference a child cannot be diagnosed as psychopathic
This was cruel,yes. Is it a uncharacteristic one off, or is there a pattern
Any significant events going on at home,school?

Is anything going on for your son at the moment? Are they his sister's guinea pigs? I'm wondering if his sister was the real target here. Children who behave cruelly sometimes use younger siblings to 'take out' something being inflicted on them, e.g. kids being bullied at school come home and bully their younger sibs.

notaregular.. that's slightly different imo, it was a genuine thought, do they swim? you tested the theory not to cruel or to get a kick from it. you stoped when you saw they didn't like it. it was a poor choice with out thinking it through.

this was done purely for his enjoyment, proven by he said he'd only stop if his sister allowed him to do it to her. that's calculated. imo.

Be really really really careful with what you are thinking OP. If you think he's a psychopath, he'll become one. If you think he's a lovely 9 year old who simply made a mistake today (because he's 9 and still learning social skills and empathy), he'll become a lovely adult. Please please see him for what he is - a 9 year old still learning. You are teaching him really well. Please don't think him bad or he will become bad

i really dont think he is a psychopathic monster. all 9 year olds do random dumb things (believe me - i have one too!)

However for some reason When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her. literally made my skin crawl. That worries me for some reason although i cant pinpoint what.

you dealt with it well op and the fact you are taking it further by asking on here and then following up and not just brushing it under the carpet shows youre a good parent.

His apology suggests he's not very good at understanding consequences until they are explained to him. "He didn't think that they'd be wet and cold..." once this was made clear, he was sorry.

I don't think his problem is empathy, but actually understand how others would feel. I'd say this was thoughtlessness if not for the fact that your DD pointed it out to him, it seems he's not very good at actually thinking about how people/animals would feel in certain situations; he didn't link "being drenched in water" to "being wet and cold" until you told him.

The fact that he didn't make this link suggests a) thoughtlessness of an extreme level, to which your punishments should see to or b) the possibility that he's not neurotypical, so doesn't make these connections that we might see as logical. If so, maybe get him tested.

"Psychopathic" is harsh at this stage, unless there's a pattern.

If you think he's a psychopath, he'll become one You’re well intentioned but v wrong
Please don't think him bad or he will become bad really it doesn’t work like that. Genes,environment,experience can be triggers but you can’t think a child bad

It was very cruel and i would have thought he would know better. But perhaps because it was 'only' water he thought it wouldn't harm them much. It is worrying that he seemed to enjoy their fear (or was he enjoying the fact that the GP's fear was upsetting for your DD?)

Guinea Pigs can die from fright - they will run round and round without stopping and can suddenly drop dead (happened to a young one of ours during a thunderstorm) they are quite sensitive little animals.

Lack of empathy, could he be slightly aspie?

You handled that extraordinarily well! I’ll take notes! Seriously, I don’t think I’d have dealt with that as well.

Empathy is a learned process for so many. His tears and apology is the kind of response you want to see, so that’s an excellent result. He thought about his actions and hopefully he understands that the consequences are not so much about being punished, but about harming living, feeling creatures.

His actions were strong and aggressive but kids can really be cruel. Kindness and compassion tend to evolve with age.

So keep on guiding your son and help him to tap into his empathy.
Does he cradle or feed the guinea pigs? Maybe a bonding session would be good.

I would be very reluctant to leave 2 kids out by water for half an hour. But my opinion is very different as my children are a lot younger.

How was your DS response when you found all this out?

I remember killing my goldfish on purpose. Deliberately. I'm alright, honest.

Sounds like you dealt with it perfectly.

But as to your title, it depends what he's normally like, surely. Doubt you could be psychopathic and get to 9 without it being obvious more than once?

Has he done anything else that made you think this, OP?

The interchange with DD and her response (ie not run and get parental help) concerns me massively. Siblings can be so cruel and they know exactly how to behave in front of parents vs out of sight/earshot. I would be very angry that he was threatening DD like that. What else is he doing when out of earshot? Kids are very good at pretending everything is fine when it's not. I would be keeping a much closer eye/ear on exactly how the siblings interact.

For background I was a horrible sibling and utterly sly with it. Very ashamed of it.

DD protested and he didn't stop immediately, so for at least part of it he was deliberately doing something he knew was cruel
But he may well have thought the animals were running from the water much like we would when we don't want to get wet, almost as a game, not that they were running because they were terrified.
As a one off I don't think its concerning, especially as he apologized to them, but I wouldn't leave him alone with your pets for quite some time yet, just in case.

I wouldn’t say he is a “pyschopathic monster“ he did something mean and stupid but, you said you seen him apologise to the guinea pigs, without being told to (I’m presuming) and had a cry about it. Not in front of an audience either. I think he realises what he has done is wrong and don’t think he would do it again. I think if or when he wants to talk about it, you keep the punishments going but believe that he is sorry and trust him. I think you handled it really well though and don’t give up with cleaning the hutch and not being allowed the hose etc. Hopefully then he won’t do it again.

Jesus, you think the kid is psychopath from this one event? It sounds like a stupid mistake to me - humans play with hosepipes in this weather, it's cold and wet and it makes us scream and run away. And yet actually we are having fun. The right kind of dog would have had great fun playing with it. Why is your assumption that he wanted to hurt to them rather than it was poorly thought through game? Saying he wanted to do it to his sister also sounds like part of a game. I'm more concerned by your belief that he's a monster.

And the boy does not need therapy because of this one incident. Bloody hell

He fucked up and was genuinely contrite

Onwards ! If he starts worse then time to worry

I would add that is was cruel to give his sister since an ultimatum. I’d mention that and how it’s not nice and also talk to your daughter about it and see if she’s ok and knows he was wrong to ask that. Also tell her she should come and get you and not to say yes to something so awful.

When DD protested, DS said he'd only stop if she let him do the same thing to her.

That's worrying. I probably wouldn't leave him alone with the Guinea Pigs again to be honest.

I'd be troubled by this .. which you obviously are .. making you a good mom .. you have a longer fuse than me .. my daughter pulled my cats tail when she was 3 .. and got a smack on the bum ! It's zero tolerance to being mean to pets .. I would rehome the Guineas .. btw my daughter is 21 now and I only ever smacked her twice ! The other time when she bit me !