To fire the nanny or not?

[Namechangetoday1]

Okay so I have an 8 month old boy and his nanny works 5 days a week 9-5 although she is forever and is rarely here at 9 and usually arrives anywhere from 5-15 minutes late. I talked to her about this a number of times but no luck.
The situation is that I work in an office complex right next to my house and I own the company so I can and do spend most of my time in my home office working and then just pop next door for meetings etc and also my staff pops in to my house for any questions. I also have a full time cleaner who works from 7-3 in the house.
So the issue is I am undecided although leaning towards firing the nanny for the below reasons:

1. I am 99% sure she lied about using top things gel in my son when I told her not too. I could smell it in him and when I confronted her about it she lied and claimed it must be from the dummy and the cleaner probably hadn't washed it properly from weeks ago. (Reason for stating I didn't want it used was because there have been new health reports showing a negative and sometimes deadly effect from teething gels and also it makes him scream bloody murder and cry his heart out where as a cool yet towel helps him a lot with his teething.
2. Due to her neglect (lack of knowledge) on caring for a circumcised boys privates (needs Vaseline twice a day otherwise it cn become reattached) his little manhood reattached and had to be forced down painfully by the doctor.
3. My older daughter who is 13 mentioned that she never hears her talking to my son at all unless the nanny can hear someone coming and them she starts acting like she's playing and starts talking. Oddly enough one of my office staff also said this today that when they are at he house the nanny seems to move around very silently so she can listen in on others and only stars ralking stupid baby talk when she realaises someone else is around.
4. The many is notoriously noisy and bossy with the other staff and acts one way in from of me and very differently when I am not around.

Unfortunately most of the time when I am working i have my door shut as I am mostly on conference calls and video meetings so I don't retold get to see a lot of this. But I do feel that I am paying her top dollar but that I am having to instruct her every step of the way and to teach her her job from buying her app programs and books on what activities to do with my son and what exercises and also when I have told her to not talk tot he cleaner about things such as damaging carpets or items of clothing and that I will address I have caught her in the act of giving the cleaner a heads up (wtf). Each time I have confronted her about these things she just breaks down crying and says she's sorry and she didn't do it and all the usual crap of how she will do anything but to be honest I really feel this person is a snake. Sadly I knew her for 4 years on and off before I hired here and she had great references of being a nanny with a family of 4 for 7 years but I really feel like this is rediculous that I have to tell her to not shake his bottle using her index finger get to seal off the nipple, or that she should wear socks when siting on my sons playmate with her bare feet after wearing flip flops to work (yes this is where is face falls and rubs against as he is learning to crawl), or that she should tie her long hair back instead of having his face against it when she is holding him or even that she shouldn't be wearing sandals with platform heels while carrying my son up and down the stairs. Each time I feel like face palming and say a silent FFS to myself I mean wtf? Aren't these the basics? So aibu to fire her or do I sound like an over the top mom?

Fire her, she sounds like a nightmare. Your money your rules !

I’d be getting rid of the cleaner if you have mouldy bottles and food that is two weeks out of date in the fridge.

To be honest your whole life sounds a little chaotic.

If the nanny does not talk to your child that is reason enough to fire her.

What a nanny does is down to your contract with her which will be determined in part by local custom wherever you are living.

In any event she sounds awful. I do not have a nanny but those I know who employed one or who were brought up by one were certainly cooked for (the child, not the adults). Who else can do the cooking when the nanny is in loco parentis?

I don’t understand what you are saying about the nanny giving the cleaner a heads-up? Why don’t you hire someone to run the business and you stay home and get rid of the full time cleaner and nanny. If you didn’t have anything to do with the business before are you sure you are the best placed to run it?

sack her.
it sounds like you employed someone you know/know of at a very difficult time. She may have been a great nanny for 4 older ones but you need someone who is great with one baby. Calm,professional and respectful and good with other staff.
Pick up the phone and speak to a decent agency this morning. They may well be able to send a emergency sitter out so you are not left shorthanded in the interim.
your son deserves the very best care.She sounds like a nightmare.

Yes fire the nanny. But tbh she's the least if your problems. You are stressed up to the eye balls, grieving and dealing with the trauma of your sons birth and health issues afterwards. You need to restore some balance in your life. Would an interim CEO be possible for your company? You would still be running it overall but the day to day stuff would be dealt with.

you dont feel comfortable with her for what ever reason so i think you would be best served by letting her go and employing an agency nanny and having a contract with all expectations written in it and also be very clear in your directions and what you need from her... some agencies expect their nannies to wear a uniform etc and have their hair back and tidy and all medication etc recorded in a written report etc etc... rather than someone who might be trained and out on their own ( not that there is anything wrong with that) as with all the trauma you and your family have gone thru and are still dealing with ( and no real break to deal with it) someone more professional might be more suited for your needs and peace of mind ( think super nanny or the agency like the royals use etc), might be more costly but for your own peace of mind and stress levels it would be worth the cost

Your micro managing your nanny and I can understand why Op, You want to be at home with your baby and are feeling only you know best, which is as his mum makes sense. I would feel the same. I would be jealous that the nanny was spending precious time with him influencing his first years and not tending to him as only a mother can. Its not true of course, he will be fine in the nannys care but I would feel like you do, because I would feel I was missing out and that my choices for him were being ignored so no control over my child and his routine. I am sorry for you as I can tell you would rather not work and look after your own baby but it isn't possible at the moment

If the nanny does not talk to your child that is reason enough to fire her.

I was going to say the same thing. She's not providing adequate stimulation for your child which one on one there's no excuse for.

The rest of it you do sound very pedantic over and I'd try and micromanage your next nanny less (ie how she has her hair, her shoe choice, bare feet etc), I'd hate to work for someone like you so I think anyone who's any good would leave with that level of micromanaging.

The lateness is unacceptable though, next one you should say arrive at 8.45 for a 9am start.

Very curious to know what a full time cleaner does, that seems very very excessive. You do realise that too sterile and in environment is bad for your child (has been linked to childhood leukaemia recently)?

The expectations you have of your nanny sound not unrealistic to me (a good friend of mine did nanny jobs after her nursing degree as she really didn't like nursing ...). I hope you can find a better one and make it work.

With regards to keeping your business running; Can I suggest you try to carve out a little time to examine the situation thoughtfully and for the long term.

What is needed to run it? Who would have those skills? Specifically, do you have the skills, long term vision, etc etc; and who else would or wouldn't? You may be the very best person to keep running it, in which case great, keep on but do try to work out how to reduce the time you are needed by employing / promoting someone else if possible.

If however you are not really the right person, I would urge you to prioritise looking for someone with the vision to be the day to day director for you. I had a relative who lost her husband unexpectedly and suddenly (albeit their children were young adults not small). He was a "creative" and had a thriving business that she tried to keep going. However without his vision behind it, the business struggled and then collapsed; it really didn't last long in the scheme of things. In her case she would have done a lot better selling it as a going concern. Your case sounds different, and you may well be the right person to remain in overall control. But I just wanted to warn you to think about alternatives seriously while things are still going ok.

Very best wishes with finding the right new nanny, quickly!

I live overseas, have a nanny and a full time housekeeper/cleaner, work full time etc so have some idea of where you are coming from.

We recently fired a nanny. It took me such a long time to make the decision. All of my friends could see that removing and replacing her would improve my life 100% (because of the stress she caused) but like you, she came with good references, I didn't want to cause further instability in my DS's life (we have just relocated), and I wanted to give her a chance and be fair. However, I realised she was bullying other staff and that was the last straw. My life is so much better. I have someone who isn't PERFECT (no-one is) so I try to unclench and let her do her thing with my DS. But the difference is that I trust her - she has his best interests at heart. Yes, we do things differently but there isn't anything she does that I think will hurt my son. So I let it roll.

Fire the nanny. Find another nanny. Trust your instinct.

It sounds like you're working very hard under difficult circumstances. You've got this!

(To people asking what a full-time cleaner does...washes and irons clothes, linen, etc every day; cleans a large house; helps with food shopping; runs household errands; helps a cook to prepare food. I could do all of this but I don't want to and nor does my husband. I fully acknowledge this privilege and am grateful for the support I have (pay for) every single day).

I would be very worried that his circumcision hasn’t healed at 8 months- that can’t be right, surely?

It’s a shame you didn’t mention the mouldy, out of date food in your op, by the way. Of course those are sacking offences.

1. I wouldn’t work for you.

1. A lot of what you are worried about is OTT

1. How do you know she made your son ill? I’m betting that’s speculation.

HOWEVER it’s your baby and if you’re not happy with his care then find someone new.

You can't have a nanny you distrust to this level. Yes, fire her.

In contrast to the first few posters, I don't think your OP is OTT at all. I wouldn't be happy with any of the things you mention. Any one of them (except the not talking to him) might be worth some effort to rectify on its own and a couple of them are things that you've heard second hand so really need to be confirmed, but if true are bad. I would not really want her looking after my child, especially long-term.

My only pause would be in wondering how possible it would be to replace her with someone better. You've known her for a while and she had a long-term with a family you know who were pleased with her. Are the expectations over childcare fairly low in the country you're in, or do you think she's an anomaly? Where would you look for a replacement?

@vandrew4 op said this was done after the birth when she was unconscious as is the standard in the country where she is

Sack the nanny

It's obvious you really don't like her and don't think she's competent at her job so what's to decide?!

Some people have no choice but to go out to work, McElf. Unless you're going to pay ops mortgage,shut your beak
FFS why am I feeding it

YANBU btw op.

I'm glad to see a few more sympathetic replies creeping in as the thread goes on!

OP has explained the circumcision thing (it was not her decision). She's also explained she is not in England and it is very usual where she is living to hire household staff. I can't help feeling that when she mentioned "other staff" it got some people's backs up as it sounds so elitist. But it isn't necessarily.

She's had a difficult birth leaving her son with some health problems, on top of which she was unexpectedly widowed and is trying to keep the family business going - she did say she was looking around for someone to run it but it is a niche business so not that simple. No wonder she's stressed and over-anxious. She should have a bloody medal instead of this opprobrium.

As for being OTT: two or three of those issues might be being fussy, but here's a whole catalogue of no-nos, the most basic one being that despite being talked to several times the nanny persists in doing things her employer has asked her not to. If she doesn't like the rules or feels OP is overbearing she can look for other employment herself. Instead she cries, begs, gets to stay and then carries on doing things her own sweet way - looking after someone else's precious 8-month-old. On what planet should any caring mother be expected to put up with this?

p.s. I'm the least houseproud person on the face of the planet, but I'd never walk over the baby's play mat, especially with shitty feet. Would you, really?

If you have mouldy food/bottles I'd be sacking the cleaner.
I don't understand how life can be so disorganised with so much help.
It does sound like you need to get rid and have clear expectations of the role for a new nanny. That doesn't mean her hairstyle however.

I think you sound very reasonable OP. The chronic lateness alone would be be enough for me to get rid of her. That just signifies an utter lack of professionalism.