...to sometimes give toddler DD the finger behind her back?

[Legbreak]

She definitely doesn’t see and it makes me feel better and is always at home, not out and about etc. My DSis thinks it’s appalling.

Not swearing at your children falls under “lowest acceptable behavior “ rather than “perfect.”

No one is swearing at their children. They are swearing about their children when their children are not around.

People seem to forget they CHOSE to have the kids, and some sound resentful, especially about 'having to' go to things like Disney on ice.'

Too right I resent it. It's shit and expensive.

However I don't show my kids that, I smile and sing along because they enjoy it. Doesn't everyone, or are you all honest with your children about how you feel about everything?

And a swear word muttered that they can't hear, or a v-flick when they can't see is literally harmless to them but makes me and others feel a bit better. I don't really know what your point is anymore?

I can't believe how many posts this thread has.

The pearl clutching continues!

A lot of these posts are an example of something really wrong with Mumsnet. Apparently to a lot of posters mothers (especially if they’re vaguely middle class) can do no wrong and aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour. This just isn’t true. I’m female and I can be a bit of a twat and lose my temper. I have to apologise sometimes.

Yet husbands, sisters, MILs, neighbours, friends, teachers, people in the street are supposed to walk on eggshells and be paragons and for the slightest transgression posters are urged to call SS or log it with the police.

It’s a fucking shitty thing to do. I can sympathetise if it’s done once or twice when at the absolute end of your tether and regretted afterwards. But to do it regularly, post it on a forum and expect people to tell you that you’re funny is full on nasty.

But really, did you honestly think it would be all fun, I think at the end of the day it is very very sad the way parenthood has been glamorised and made out to be all sunshine and daisies when the reality is, it sounds like it is a very hard thing and I am sad that so many women still fall into the trap.

No, I didn't. You're MASSIVELY missing the point. Which is, I do stuff I personally hate because it means a lot to my kids. I only complain in my head.

I agree about the glamorisation though. Last time my friend and I went to see something like this we did say "they'd likely be fine if we didn't come here, we need to stop feeling guilty about never doing things or feeling pressured to always do stuff"

Had I known my parents couldn't be arsed with me, as I later found out in life that was the case, I honestly wish they hadn't bothered having me, and yeah they were disrespectful to me and it has had a massive impact on me, so I urge you to think carefully about how you treat your kids.

Oh do fuck off with your trying to make me out to be like this. I can be arsed with my kids, I just dislike some children's activities. Doesn't going to them regardless show that I can very much be arsed with them? Do you love everything you do with your children.

This is the beaks I'm talking about, the judgement and the bosom hoiking. It's hilarious and boring in equal measure.

I think if we only did things we as parents enjoyed life for many of our children much of the time would be quite dull and boring

Parents are allowed to feel bored at times but the fact is many of us do do things we don’t particularly enjoy because our children do.

Seeing ds smile, laugh and have fun of makes me happy but that doesn’t mean I am going to enjoy sitting in a piss smelling soft play cafe listening to what seems like hundreds of children shouting and screaming excitedly

By the end I always have a headache if we go as a group one is bound to be crying or there has been some argument that then has to be dealt with it’s tiring and at times boring

luckystar, your experience was horrible, and your mother was an unfit mother.

smileseachday is not talking about that sort of neglect and horridness though. She's made it clear, rather beautifully, that she loves and puts time into her child. She just lets off steam sometimes.

To those posters saying they don’t respect their kids until they earn it , there is two definitions of respect :

1-
1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

2- due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others.

Your child probably gives u the first type of respect , and u need to by default give them the second type whether they have proven anything or not.

I know their feelings won’t be tainted if they didn’t see you do it, but to treat them behind their back in a way that you wouldn’t treat someone to their face because it hurts their feelings , basically means : “ you don’t respect them behind their backs”.

I can understand the argument that some kids grow to find this funny and aren’t bothered because a mum goes through a lot .. and yes I agree mums go through a lot. And many of you sound very loving and u must have done many things right for ur child to trust u to this solid level...

However, I also personally know some kids that found it funny when their parents lied, stole, beat them ..... doesn’t make it right ..

I admit after this thread I might be less shocked if I see someone do it , as it seems to have become normalised (unfortunately), but that’s the second problem I have with this issue ... we are growing a generation where such disrespect is normalised.

I am a person that finds being one thing behind someone’s back and one thing to their face is basically 2-faced, untrustworthy And disrespectful. I wouldn’t accept it on myself , from anyone.

I can understand, though resent it, that some mums see this as harmless there and then to the child... but just realize that what we are discussing here is whether such behavior should be encouraged as normal and positive on a thread like this ... or if we should discuss the morality of it in a logical manner

If the mentality is as such :

“Mums do so much that this error shouldn’t be a reason to judge them”,.. then I understand.

But the arguments being made by many of you is :

“Mums do so much so you don’t dare pinpoint that anything they do might be an error”

It’s quite arrogant to believe that you shouldn’t challenge ur personal perception and grow as a human being ...

Too right I resent it. It's shit and expensive

Then don’t do it.... my children want me to take them to Disney world, they want an Xbox, they want to go on a £5k all inclusive holiday.

None of these things are happening. I don’t get extra parent points for it and it doesn’t go anyway to making sure I do my best to bring my children up well.

A lot of these posts are an example of something really wrong with Mumsnet. Apparently to a lot of posters mothers (especially if they’re vaguely middle class) can do no wrong and aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour

This is also bollocks. Just because people have called out behaviour as not very nice, it doesn’t mean people are holding parents up to impossible standards.

It isn’t nice to swear at a child, whether they see it or not. Not sure how anyone can defend it.

Yes, parenting is fucking hard, no one is perfect and as a result we may end up doing things which are far from ideal. We recognise that and we move on. That’s a bit different to saying “actually it’s ok to be a bit shit sometimes and I won’t make an effort to improve”.

Yes, parenting is fucking hard, no one is perfect and as a result we may end up doing things which are far from ideal. We recognise that and we move on. That’s a bit different to saying “actually it’s ok to be a bit shit sometimes and I won’t make an effort to improve”.

Perfect !

Then don’t do it.... my children want me to take them to Disney world, they want an Xbox, they want to go on a £5k all inclusive holiday.

Yeah, Disney on Ice tickets don't cost £5k, we can afford it and the kids want to do it, so I'll carry on cheers 👌🏼 why on Earth would I stop?

Thank you, SeaEagle

why on Earth would I stop?

Er you said you resent it.... I don’t resent doing things which make my child happy so not sure why you’d do something that did

Oh your child’s enjoyment is your enjoyment

That is so sweet 💛💛💛

Ah so you only do things you personally enjoy, if you don't like it you don't do it? How boring for your kids (unless you actually get personal pleasure from sitting in a soft play?)

I like watching my kids get excited over Peppa Pig on stage, even though I can't bear the show itself, so I'll be sure to stop, thanx Hun

I don’t resent doing things which make my child happy so not sure why you’d do something that did

Because. It. Makes. Them. Happy

Do you understand?

' I was saying teachers have different boundaries to parents'

I am a teacher. I don't swear at my students and would be sacked if I did. Neither do I swear at my children. Same boundaries actually.

And those of you saying it's harder to deal with your own child than 30 of other people's kids have no clue. Especially not when so many parents have such rubbish boundaries such that their kids think it's OK to swear for example.

I don't ask the question, 'What would your parents think of your behaviour' any more because too often the response is that parents wouldn't care since it's what they do themselves or that parents can't do anything to stop it.

As I keep saying, you may not find it so funny or so trivial when your delightful young children grow up to be big, bad-tempered teen-agers and start swearing at you or other adults in their lives.

People are saying it’s different

As the feelings are different what your child demands from you is different on an emotional level

If you are unable to distinguish between these relationships and your feelings then you really need to explore that

I am a teacher. I don't swear at my students and would be sacked if I did. Neither do I swear at my children. Same boundaries actually.

Are you for real? Of course it's different! You treat You're pupils and children identically do you And I'm afraid no one can get sacked from parenting, another reason why it's different

Also once again no one is swearing at their children. Do you understand what 'behind their back' means?

Gunpowder, when it comes to swearing and many other aspects of behaviour I have the same boundaries.

I think justifying poor parenting on the basis that you're not going to get sacked from it is pretty reprehensible.

I hope that I am at least as good a parent as I am a teacher, not because I'd be sacked but because I care about all kids and love my own. And I want to set a decent role model and have my kids grow up with decent standards.

Swearing behind someone's back is no better. It's the same action isn't it? Just deceitfully. Unless they turn round.

Do you also think it's OK to steal as long as you don't get found out?

No one has answered my question if it's the same as if you say "fuck off" in your head than if you do under your breath in a different room? Because in both situations the kids are unaware, but the sentiment is the same?

I think justifying poor parenting on the basis that you're not going to get sacked from it is pretty reprehensible

Are you sure you're a teacher? Because you have no reading comprehension - where did I use this to justify anything? I used it as an example of why being a teacher isn't the same as being a parent.

And I want to set a decent role model and have my kids grow up with decent standards.

Likewise. As is the case with most parents. But releasing a bit of tension that kids won't be remotely aware of doesn't compromise this.

Swearing behind someone's back is no better. It's the same action isn't it? Just deceitfully. Unless they turn round.

Of course it's not. Do you think if you bitched behind someone's back for example (which I'm sure you don't being perfect and all) it's the same as saying it to their face? No. Because they are not affected, they don't know what you've said, it has no emotional affect on them [disclaimer: not advocating bitching, it's an analogy]

Do you also think it's OK to steal as long as you don't get found out?

Well no because stealing is a crime. Again, are you sure you're a teacher?

Gunpowder, personally I don't even think fuck off to my children. It's just not how I think of them or how I think.

But do you really need somebody to explain to you why your thoughts are different from what you actually do/ say? Come on!

Is it OK for me to have an affair behind my husband's back as long as he never knows??

What's with some of you people? Do you have no moral code whatsoever?

I don't even think fuck off to my children.

I agree. I have never thought that of my children.