...to sometimes give toddler DD the finger behind her back?

[Legbreak]

She definitely doesn’t see and it makes me feel better and is always at home, not out and about etc. My DSis thinks it’s appalling.

Smile, you're not making any sense.

You're not the toddler being sworn at so you're not in a position to decide the 'intention' behind it.

Of course you and I are capable of judging whether somebody is being aggressive or trying to be funny if they swear at us. How ridiculous!

But what is being discussed is an adult in a position of responsibility swearing at a child who is vulnerable. In my view and I would argue most other's (which the OP is well aware of as she would not do it in public) that is NEVER appropriate.

How can it ever be funny to swear at a toddler?

As others have said most normal people would be devastated if they saw a loved one doing this behind their back

Gosh. So seeing things differently to you means someone isn’t “normal”.

I’m out of this discussion in that case.

Except you aren’t listening. I perceive the gesture differently to you. I am not judging you for your perception.
Are you saying that my perception is wrong?

Again, would you do it in public? If not, then you can talk about different perceptions all you like but you are well aware of what the gesture means.

Most people would be hurt to find a loved one swearing at them. Since the whole point of swearing is to be taboo, that would be a normal reaction.

user

You know what, I’ve never considered it - but if we had one of the moments I described earlier - the 4000th asking of a thing, the momentary v flick, a shake of the head - if that happened and I was in public then yes, I probably would. And it would be blatantly obvious to everyone that the intent is veryfar away from aggressive swearing.

Again, the OP, is aware of this or why would she be doing it behind the toddler's back. She knows her toddler would be hurt or confused or copy the action. So why do it?

Oh, she's already explained this, to make herself feel better.

Doing something potentially hurtful or that in any case you know to be wrong to a toddler to make your self feel better cannot be presented as good parenting.

Not everyone is bothered by swearing

No doubt ds would be upset if he caught me doing a v behind his back but at the moment he finds the gusture highly amusing so I am not sure what he would think

But if he was upset it would be something I would just have to deal with there are far bigger issues in life than seeing his mum lose her temper and swearing behind his back

And it would be blatantly obvious to everyone that the intent is veryfar away from aggressive swearing.

You would expect your child’s teacher to understand that?

Smile, swearing by definition IS aggressive. Swearing IS using taboo language (even if that is communicated through gesture). That is always the way it has been. That is why you wouldn't swear to a customer or a student or in most public places.

Yes, you can do it in a funny way with adults who get it but we are talking about an adult to a toddler where it will always be inappropriate.

Google swearing. It is the use of 'offensive language'. It is designed to offend.

But if he was upset it would be something I would just have to deal with there are far bigger issues in life than seeing his mum lose her temper and swearing behind his back

Not for a kid there aren’t. That’ll be the biggest issue of his life so far, that his mum wants him to fuck off.

UserX, to be honest it would be the biggest thing in MY life if my mum swore at me or my husband made sweary gestures behind my back.

These are people I love and trust and who I rely on to love and trust me back.

But how much worse for an adult to abuse their power with a child in this way?

Ok you guys. You’ve battered my into submission. I’m an awful parent and I will cease and desist.

I will no longer flick the vs in a totally good humoured way. I totally accept that I’ve been doing something designed to hurt and offend my child.

It probably means I don’t love them as much as you love your children.

Oh please the drama you are sounding ridiculous

Some parents lose their temper and shout or sometimes say things they don’t mean this can be discussed with a child and explained what was done is wrong and apologized for

This is part of relationships at times. all or perhaps I should say most parents have snapped at some point and their child/children

That's right Smile, use a nice bit of irony to deflect the issue.... Better than swearing admittedly.

I don't think swearing at your children is very loving but it doesn't mean that people who do this don't love their children.

Irony?

Shouldn’t you just be taking my words at face value?

Sorry if the point has already been made, but supposing a care worker 'flicks v's or gives the finger at an elderly, confused person' to let off steam, vent etc and it is caught on camera (as has happened in news stories). Don't you think relatives would be appalled? Particularly if the patient is vulnerable. Yet isn't it exactly the same to do it to a baby or toddler ? It shows a fundamental lack of respect. I really can't imagine that concerned relatives would 'lol' or fist bump each other in amusement. It is distasteful in the extreme. I am sure that everyone has behaved in a manner they regret in the heat of the moment on occasion, but to set out to do it deliberately for a laugh is worrying and cannot be a positive way of dealing with the most vulnerable members of our families.

But if you would be horrified to see a teacher swearing behind the back of her pupils, why is it OK for the mum?

Because rules are different for parents than they are for teachers. I wouldn't expect a teacher to wipe my child's bum, kids their bruises, organise their birthday parties, or arrange play dates. The boundaries are TOTALLY different.

It's staggering hypocrisy as well. I'll tell my child to fuck off but I don't expect anyone else to.

When they raise my child and have the tough days I do, they can mutter "fuck off" under their breath.

The are literally no effects on the child from this. They don't see or hear. However, it makes me and others feel that bit better when you have those unbearable moments with your children.

I am beyond fucking sick of other people sticking their sanctimonious beaks into women's business. They expect women to always perform perfectly and patiently 100% of the time with no room whatsoever for human error. Parenting is hard enough without the annoying bosom hoikers who don't know other women, their families, the dynamics and the challenges they all face. We don't all have to gaze adoringly at our children, even when they're behaving terribly, because that's what naice mummies do.

I believe the good I do for my kids far outweighs the odd quiet "fuck off" (that they don't even bloody hear). I'm at every choir concert, every dance performance, I make games at home, we go to the vastly expensive Disney on Ice and buy the £20 tatty plastic wands even though I'd much rather spend that money on a spa day, and I painstakingly plan holidays completely centred around what the children will enjoy. I couldn't think of anything worse than sitting watching an animation team prancing about during a mini-disco - but we do it every year because it's not about me.

And to answer a PP, my mum did do it to me. I never knew until adulthood (when I did it in front of her one day and she said that was her trick) and frankly I don't blame her, I could be a right shit as a child.

I have done this behind Dh back, and more than once to his face, and he laughs, as it isn’t known in his culture!

I am beyond fucking sick of other people sticking their sanctimonious beaks into women's business. They expect women to always perform perfectly and patiently 100% of the time with no room whatsoever for human error

This makes no sense. The OP herself gives her toddler the finger and puts herself up for judgement in this post. That’s not people sticking their “beak” in, unless you only expect supportive replies

They expect women to always perform perfectly and patiently 100% of the time with no room whatsoever for human error.

Not swearing at your children falls under “lowest acceptable behavior “ rather than “perfect.”

Because rules are different for parents than they are for teachers. I wouldn't expect a teacher to wipe my child's bum, kids their bruises, organise their birthday parties, or arrange play dates. The boundaries are TOTALLY different

This is such a twisted argument. “ I love my child the most so I get to do what I like.” Your child is a person who deserves respect. Wiping bums doesn’t let you off here.

with no room whatsoever for human error.

So you DO consider sticking fingers up at a young child "human error" then?

That's precisely what people have tried to point out.

smileeach i thought your post Tue 26-Jun-18 21:52:41 was just lovely.

I don't do the V's myself but know people who do and it's just a differnet way of letting a moment's steam out and that's all they see it as.

You sound great company! And very human =)

It's not about whether the child sees it or not, it is a reflection of the person that's shocking, it shows a massive lack of respect.

People seem to forget they CHOSE to have the kids, and some sound resentful, especially about 'having to' go to things like Disney on ice.

Well, you don't ACTUALLY 'have to' do those things, I never got anything like that and I turned out a more decent human being than the spoilt brats from my high school who got to do such things.

But really, did you honestly think it would be all fun, I think at the end of the day it is very very sad the way parenthood has been glamorised and made out to be all sunshine and daisies when the reality is, it sounds like it is a very hard thing and I am sad that so many women still fall into the trap.

Had I known my parents couldn't be arsed with me, as I later found out in life that was the case, I honestly wish they hadn't bothered having me, and yeah they were disrespectful to me and it has had a massive impact on me, so I urge you to think carefully about how you treat your kids.

The people in the town I was raised have mostly not given a shit, and what their adult children are like now, honestly.. SMH. They are despicable human beings, selfish, rude, wastes of space.

Your child is a person who deserves respect. Wiping bums doesn’t let you off here.

I didn't say it did. I was saying teachers have different boundaries to parents