How bad is this?

[Looneytune253]

My daughter (13) just told me that one of the boys in her class told her she shouldn’t take her jumper off in the hot classroom because he could see her bra and it was distracting? Why do boys think this kind of comment is ok and that girls should cover up so they can control themselves or is this boy just a pervert? Is this common. AIBU to make a big complaint to the school or is it relatively minor?

Crispysausagerolls do you advocate this approach as a way to chat up girls? Your boys will come unstuck if you think this is going to give them a decent success rate.

Why should women and girls have to constantly deal with remarks about their body, clothing, sexuality, to make men and boys feel more at ease?

What on earth is wrong with teaching all children about respect? Why are there people (not aimed at you crispy) on this thread so so desperate to paint anyone objecting to this as a feminist as if that's some dirty word? Horror of horrors, a feminist.

Lazy stereotyping from certain quarters, it seems to me. What are you so threatened by?

What is left in the way of disgust and punishment for real problems if this is classed as a issue?

Clearly girls' bras will be visible at times and that is not a problem and they do not need to take steps to avoid that. But neither do they have to have a bit of nonsense blown out of all proportion, to the detriment of the both the girl and the boy.

I have a clutch of girls (now grown) and would have told them to just laugh it off in a similar situation. We can't be teaching them to look for problems where there are none.

OP's DD will only feel bad about it if her Mum handles it badly and makes a big deal of something entirely trivial.

Women's rights are important, and serious injustices have been and need to be addressed. But it is possible to go OTT and make an issue where there is none.

OP's DD will only feel bad about it if her Mum handles it badly and makes a big deal of something entirely trivial

You think there’s no possibility she was upset and embarrassed in class and therefore told her mum?

PeppermintPasty

Of course I don’t advocate it - it’s hammy, clumsy and silly. And, as you say, ineffective! But ineffective is kind of charming in a way - far better that sort of embarrassing and clueless snafu than a boy who knows exactly how to pressure a girl into doing what they want...

In my opinion the absolute best way to deal with these things (and the most empowering way) is to educate girls AND boys about how to handle unwanted comments and advances, and to teach them the difference between an idiotic but really harmless comment, and someone actually going too far and saying something sinister.

The point is though that it would have been nice if this stuff didn't happen in the first place so your girls didn't have to 'laugh it off'. That's just another way of saying put up with it, it happens, suck it up.

If this happened to my dd, I would not make a huge 'hysterical' (never been hysterical in my life, like most women I suspect) drama about it, but I would sure as hell let it be known that it's unacceptable, and that it shouldn't go unchallenged, whether by dd or by teacher. It should be a life lesson for sure, but maybe for the boy-he needs educating.

Sorry, that last post was to mishappening.

I think it's really positive that your DD told you what happened, OP. I didn't tell my mum any of that sort of thing that was happening at school.

OP tell her to make a quick witted reply back next time. It’s important girls are strong enough to stand up for themselves. If it continues then it could be classed as harassment and I would make a complaint then. A one off stupid remark from a 13 boy is not justified as labelling him as a pervert.

*13 year old

Absolutely, I agree with @HellonHeels that it may be normal but it is not acceptable.

I hope the MN hive mind can help find some strategies to support her in dealing with it, better than I ever did. One of the good things about all girls school was to escape from the daily 'banter' but it continued in the holidays.

Every time I pass the construction works near work, I bless the line that says we are considerate contractors and do not call out comments. My mother of course dismissed it and said that I no longer get cat called because I am that much older. Sigh.

He's out of order. If he finds it distracting that's his problem and he needs to deal with that.
However comments saying he's a pervert or poses a danger now or in the future based on that comment is ridiculous.
If he finds it distracting, which may be down to his age and puberty, then he finds it distracting but he needs to understand he can't tell a girl how to dress.

We can't be teaching them to look for problems where there are none.

Exactly

There I wrong with a teenage boy being distracted by a bra strap. Nothing. Totally normal.

The boy was wrong to be a thoughtless twonk and embarrass her.

But this isn’t a gender thing. He will grow up to no doubt to be a thoughtless twonk adult. Perhaps just like the girl who sits three seats away from the DD who made a male classmate feel shit that day by calling him a “little dick”

this is nothing wrong

So as a parent the role is to educate how one deals with thoughtless twonks in life.

Either respond. Ignore. Escalate.

And I would select the first two in this instances

The problem is not so much that he commented he could see her bra (although it wasn't really necessary), but that he told her she couldn't take her jumper off.

'You look nice'- compliment
'You can't take your jumper off'-not a compliment
Just in case anyone is confused.

Fucklush, what particular brand of feminism might that be?
The only feminists I ever see or hear are empowered women who know their rights and who won't tolerate behaviour towards them like the behaviour discussed in the op. If we tell young girls and women that they don't have to tolerate any sexist crap from men or other women they will be strong minded people and certainly not victims

Fyi it's sex not gender.

Banter is a phrase frequently (usually) used to excuse bullying or harassment- the implication being that you don't have a sense of humour if you don't see it as good natured banter.
The reality is that by implying the person on the receiving end of the banter has a poor sense of humour too many people get away with unacceptable behaviour.

I'm regularly in boiling hot classrooms where girls refuse to remove jumpers and blazers because of what boys might say. I remember being humiliated by comments boys felt they were entitled to make about what I wore at school.(and elsewhere). It's not on. We should be teaching girls to call this crap out. And as for those victim blaming-see that man Chope. Women should dress decently. How about fucking off?

StripeyDeckchair well said

Lil re your comment upthread when you say makes do not have any right to comment on a woman’s appearance or tell them what to do.

Our of curiously, do women have the right to comment on other women’s appearance?

And some males do have the right to tell a woman what to do. A boss? A policeman?

It sounds like a factual statement for the lad in question.
She can do with the information as she pleases.

And some males do have the right to tell a woman what to do. A boss? A policeman?

Kind of a strawman in this situation as the 13 year old is neither. However I agree, in some situations other male adults by their position have the right to tell other adults (including women) what to do and if their dress is contravening any company policy.

If the boy had felt strongly enough his education was being compromised he should have taken steps. Except he rather put the onus on OP’s DD which is of course inappropriate in this context.