How bad is this?

[Looneytune253]

My daughter (13) just told me that one of the boys in her class told her she shouldn’t take her jumper off in the hot classroom because he could see her bra and it was distracting? Why do boys think this kind of comment is ok and that girls should cover up so they can control themselves or is this boy just a pervert? Is this common. AIBU to make a big complaint to the school or is it relatively minor?

She needs a really good reply to use. Any suggestions?

To people saying they don't see the harm, would you feel the same if a male colleague said this to you in the workplace?
This too.

I actually remember boys saying stuff about our bras!! (30 odd years ago!!)
Stuff like 'why do you bother wearing a bra!' was responded with 'why do you wear underpants?'
Clear as day omg!!

"normal"? "banter"? " do you want your daughter to think it's okay to have your bra showing in school "

Fucking HELL! Some of you need to wake up to what you are normalising. It might be 'normal' but it is not acceptable. This kind of crap needs to be addressed.

Surely the answer is: ‘well, that’s your problem, not mine.’ And if he makes a thing of it, she could suggest mindfulness or other meditation trchniques to improve his concentration, since he’s so easily distracted.
It has happened forever, but we don’t have to put up with it.

I think it's normal but unacceptable behaviour (similar to a toddler grabbing toys off another toddler - it's normal but should be corrected). Shouldn't be a big deal but it should be dealt with.

"stop pushing me in the tits!!" one school girl screamed on the bus i was on with my small children. she was obviously doing it for attention as they were all giggling and its an all girls school. not saying its ok just that its normal.

What's the problem? Never seen a bra before Weiner? Should cover it.

It's not an acceptable comment, but yes it is the kind of crappy "banter" I had to put up with at school (along with actual sexual touching, pinging bra straps, grabbing breasts in the corridor, grabbing my arse on the school bus) and is the number one reason DD1 goes to an all girls school.

I'd certainly raise it with the school if they do not take this sort of thing seriously. Sexual comments and assault are absolutely endemic still in mixed schools.

I like rinoachicken response. I wouldn’t complain to the school though. My DH said that at that age he was a walking mound of hormones that had no control over his penis; vibrations from the bus, underwear catalogue, swimming lessons were a nightmare he claims and very embarrassing. I’m not minimising at all but that age sounds troublesome for lads as well and for the majority of them, it’s not intended to be pervy or sets them up to be rapists.

It was much more likely a teenagers attempt at flirty banter, at the worst him trying to irritate her and show off to his friends.
Tbh a teenage boy would be told to pull their trousers up and not have their boxers on show at school without a fuss but lots of people think girls should be allowed to walk around in a short skirt bending over and flashing their knickers or having their bra on show, they can do what they want when they out in town with their friends but I think your underwear shouldnt be on show when you are at school in your uniform.

Yes I would feel the same if someone in the work place said to me! Its just banter. Who are all these feminists that are all over MN? I don't know anyone like this in real life. So uptight!
A boy at school tried to flirt with her. It was banter, of course he didn't really want her to keep her jumper on, he wanted to let her know that he's noticed her. If she likes him back she can take it as a compliment if he's vile she can say something along the lines of "Fuck of Luke, in your dreams"
Everyone goes back to doing their work. Life can be so simple if you want it to be.

It's pretty difficult not to "show your underwear" under a regulation white shirt, which are often pretty thin material. A white bra will still have an outline.

Anyway, fuck off with the victim blaming.

upsideup

Her bra wasn't 'on show' - it was just visible through her shirt (as is the case with most shirts!)

yes, this crap needs to be addressed.

I'd be tempted to tell her to tell him that if he has that much of a problem with seeing a vague outline of women's underwear, he should ask his doctor about chemical castration.

seriously, tell a form teacher or headteacher and get them to have a talk to boys about keeping their harrassing comments in their heads.

"Really? I find stupid remarks distracting..."

If she likes him back she can take it as a compliment

I'm not sure whether to laugh? Cry? Vomit?

Ugh I dread this kind of crap. I have a boy and a girl and I dread it for them both as they get older. I'm doing all I can to teach them about respect but god help us if this is considered fine and dandy.

Part of it is the rape culture thing... embedding the attitude in both boys and girls that girls deserve to be harassed (and by extension, raped, is where it will lead in some boys' minds) because they're responsible for "distracting" boys so it's their own fault. The exact same shit we berate high court judges for, well here's where it starts.

But there's another thing as well and that is the ongoing, bit-by-bit, drip-drip-drip humiliation of girls/women just for being female and having female bodies. Making them feel awkward and self-conscious and miserable for that as just another way of asserting dominance.

Yes she does need to be armed with good responses because that is a way to feel strong and assert your rights in that situation. but not ONLY that. It also needs to be reported and made very clear to boys who do this that it is not OK and why.

I bet there are some gay girls in the school, bet she doesn't have to deal with humiliating remarks from them, does she? It's not about distraction and making other people feel uncomfortable at all. It's about boys asserting dominance. Because society encourages and allows them to .

It's possible that he has told her it's distracting because he has heard a teacher say it.

When I was in 6th form, one of my teachers told me I should reconsider my clothing choices (a somewhat snug polo shirt) because it was distracting the boy opposite me. I told her that it wasn't really my problem if he was staring down my top, and he shouldn't be so easily 'distracted.'

Anyway, I would suggest that your daughter just respond with something like "so?" so that the boys don't grow up thinking that bras and boobs are some magical thing. If she's self conscious of her bra showing, she could consider wearing a vest underneath her school shirt.

Totally inappropriate comment, but I don't think he's an embryo pervert.

She should just tell him that she isn't responsible for his pathetic inability to concentrate, and he should sit somewhere he can't see her (or any other girl). If he continues to pester her - report his comments then.

It's back to the age old tendency of men to blame women for being attractive.

I don’t think it’s flirting. My dd is quite a scary girl (not a criticism, I love it, she’s strong and will usually tell people where to go and surprised she didn’t in this case)

A girl should take being told to cover up as a compliment?! Hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa! A boy telling a girl to cover herself up because she is distracting him is an entitled little twat and we all know where male entitlement leads. If he is trying to flirt, maybe he should learn how to speak to girls like they are human beings. Banter, my arse!

He's not necessarily an "embryo pervert", no, but if comments like this are not dealt with (by the teacher, there is no need for the girl to say or do anything) then this kind of fuckwittery becomes pervasive. As it currently is in UK society.

When I was 13 a boy in my class kept pinging my bra at the back! I told him off & he put me in a headlock so I dug my (long) fingernails into his arm & he screamed.

He was a real bully but he never bothered me again!!

This was all while we were waiting for the teacher to turn up.

I take it the blouse is a school uniform one. If so obviously your daughter is perfectly entitled to take her jumper off, thus revealing said part of school uniform.

I think that the priority is to ensure that your daughter understands that if the boy finds seeing a bra under a blouse distracting this is really his problem rather than hers and she should tell him this (if she can even be bothered to respond). If you haven't done so already, this is a good opportunity to work through with your daughter the logic of this boy's attitude - if women need to dress to avoid potentially distracting any poor chap in the vicinity then we end up with a situation of some needing to cover the majority of their bodies and heads up (because who knows which part of a woman could be distracting) and indeed perhaps women need to stay indoors to avoid constituting a general distraction. Equip your daughter with the mindset and logic to ignore or challenge (depending on the circumstances) all this sexist rubbish she will encounter in her life.

After that, if you want to "do you bit" you may wish to raise this with the school to ensure that they talk to the boy about his attitude and/or talk to the class about this sort of thing. But this decision will really need to be one based on you weighing up the upside and downside for your daughter. There is also an important lesson about picking your battles - some are worth creating a huge scene about, others aren't.

p.s. I am a woman who has grave concerns that the impact of proposed changes to the law relating to transgender rights will be to significantly erode women's rights. I object to being accused of transphobia for asking questions about the reforms and I do not agree that we need to subvert our language or understanding of biology in order to respect the rights of people who wish to decide on their gender-identity. I urge all women to visit the Fair Play for Women website to read about the issues and form their own views. I am grateful to MN for providing a platform where the issues can be discussed albeit in a heavily-moderataed manner (in contrast to most other social media platforms which have banned or silenced open debate).