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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How bad is this?

211 replies

Looneytune253 · 15/06/2018 10:25

My daughter (13) just told me that one of the boys in her class told her she shouldn’t take her jumper off in the hot classroom because he could see her bra and it was distracting? Why do boys think this kind of comment is ok and that girls should cover up so they can control themselves or is this boy just a pervert? Is this common. AIBU to make a big complaint to the school or is it relatively minor?

OP posts:
easyandy101 · 15/06/2018 11:05

To people saying they don't see the harm, would you feel the same if a male colleague said this to you in the workplace?

We're talking about children here though

Thescene: Young kid, makes clumsy approach

Mumsnet: "Disgusting little pervert"

Some of you need to have words with yourself

Racecardriver · 15/06/2018 11:05

You need to teach your daughter to respond 'Are you an idiot?' to idiotic statements. Or 'Not my problem.' because it really isn't her problem if he is too stupid to ignore someone else's underwear.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 15/06/2018 11:07

Not every girl wants a boy to point out that he has noticed her in an attraction type way though. My DD had the school jock flirting with her constantly through Y11. Even the teachers encouraged it, setting them up on little errands together etc.

DD is gorgeous but quiet and everyone (teachers included) took her lack of enthusiasm for shyness and invested in the potential romance as some sort of Cinderella story.

She eventually got worn down and dated him a couple of times, decided he was a nice boy but boring (DD is very bright and geeky) and used the excuse of GCSE revision not to see him again and do all the constant texting malarkey.

Oh yeah, and she came out as gay in the sixth form.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think any girl should have to put up with a boy's attention/bants/flirting at school. Boys need to be taught what is not acceptable in a classroom.

Fenwickdream · 15/06/2018 11:08

But why cry or vomit? You're the ones that are finding life difficult, getting annoyed with everything and everyone that doesn't live up to your expectations. You're the ones who don't know how to brush off people who are different to you and say different things and have different morals. Think the whole World should be just like you!

If I knew you I'd wanna Vom or cry with your feminist over analysing but as you're a stranger on the internet I don't think I can stir up such emotion right now.

Frenchiemamax · 15/06/2018 11:12

We're talking about children here though

Yes, and by not nipping these things in the bud as children we're not teaching our kids that these things are unacceptable.

But why cry or vomit? You're the ones that are finding life difficult, getting annoyed with everything and everyone that doesn't live up to your expectations. You're the ones who don't know how to brush off people who are different to you and say different things and have different morals. Think the whole World should be just like you!

I can absolutely brush off banter or silly comments, but making a female feel shit for BEING A FEMALE isn't something you should brush off, I feel. There are different morals, and there are no morals.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 15/06/2018 11:13

If she's a really feisty character OP, she could put her hand up and say, "Sir/Miss, apparently the sight of my bra strap is distracting Billy. Can he go and sit at the front where he will be able to concentrate better?"

This depends on her being willing to embarrass the boy and having a teacher who will be on board though.

crazycatgal · 15/06/2018 11:14

@Fenwickdream No wonder a lot of boys grow up to be misogynistic pigs when people like you think this kind of behaviour is fine.

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore · 15/06/2018 11:16

My maths teacher complained about this when I was at school. Asked that the girls not wear black bras under white shirts. We were all a bit confused as he was gay... maybe he just found it aesthetically displeasing. Confused

Shumpalumpa · 15/06/2018 11:17

is this the general consensus that it’s normal?

4 comments is not a general consensus.

ConkerGame · 15/06/2018 11:18

The responses on this thread are so depressing. If 13 year old boys are allowed to make comments like this unchecked, then they’ll go on to push boundaries further and further and end up doing far worse as they get older.

The other thread today about the Australian woman who was murdered - everyone is saying “you can’t teach rapists not to be rapists”, but actually you CAN teach men respect for women and it starts by picking up on comments made at 13 and showing them how unacceptable it is to say things like this.

Not every 13 year old making sexist comments will go on to be a rapist but you can bet all rapists have been brought up in a culture where it’s acceptable for men to constantly make women feel awkward about their bodies and their sexuality. If we enforced better boundaries at school we’d see far fewer problems amongst adults.

Mamabearx4 · 15/06/2018 11:18

Normal but not acceptable

Options

If it makes her uncomfortable she could choose to wear a white cami between bra and shirt to minimise outlines of bra. (she should have to but its an

:- good i paid a lot of money for it

:- Oh right thanks, lets hope i cant see yours

:- Oh have you not seen one before

:- and................?

:- Oh shit i have a boobs? (as dictated by my 14 yr old dd when i posed her this question)

Willow2017 · 15/06/2018 11:20

If she likes him back she can take it as a compliment

Males telling women they should cover up as they cant control their own eyes?

Ffs what a compliment!

If he cant deal with a girls bra showing through a white shirt he is going to have to go around school with his eyes shut then isnt he? He must have difficulty walking around in the streets as well is he is so easily distracted!

Christ on a bike, why are people thinking any male telling a woman she needs to cover herself up for his benefit is 'acceptable'/ 'banter'/'a compliment'/'OK'?

Maybe she should tell him to cover himself up as his moobs are distracting her? Not nice? So whats the difference?

0SometimesIWonder · 15/06/2018 11:22

It is simply not ok, and I'd be going to the school.

Frenchiemamax is spot on.

Can't believe the comments here, just because it happened to some of you at school doesn't mean it's bloody normal.

It's not acceptable, ever, under any circumstances, to make a female feel shit for BEING A FEMALE

easyandy101 · 15/06/2018 11:22

Yes, and by not nipping these things in the bud as children we're not teaching our kids that these things are unacceptable.

Life is a process of discovery.

It comes across to me as little more than a clumsy advance, made by a clumsy teen. We all did some things as kids we cringe about as we get older. I know I did and have somehow managed to grow up to be a (pretty) normal person

marmeemarch1 · 15/06/2018 11:25

This is never ok, by accepting comments like this in school we make it ok for the boys for the rest of their lives to make personal comments to girls. It would not be acceptable in the workplace.

Boys were horrible when I was at school making comments about girls bras, legs or skirts and touching girls inappropriately and it was just ignored as normal. I was sexually harassed at work when I was younger and it took me a while to even recognise it because I thought it was just what males do.

It shouldn't be tolerated and normalised, and girls should not be made to feel uncomfortable at school especially at such a vulnerable age.

Fenwickdream · 15/06/2018 11:27

Feel shit about being a female because someone tried to flirt with you / mildly embarrassed you Grin

I feel shit about being female when I've got bad period pains but I can't say anything a man ever said or did to me would make me feel shit about being female?

God forbid, if I were ever raped or assaulted but I can assure you my feelings wouldn't be I feel shit about being a female, they would be that human being is a .

Weirdly, I'd imagine that all you feminists here that can't accept men are men and women are women and act a bit different. Fancy each other and get it a bit wrong sometimes (especially as teens) are the same nutters who are obsessively posting all over the internet that men and women are different (trans).

ikeepaforkinmypurse · 15/06/2018 11:28

what a ridiculous over -reaction. Yes, the boy should learn some manners, no he's not a pervert. Good grief, he's a teenage boy.

I can't believe how many posters are so sexually obsessed these days, and see perverts, rapists and abusers absolutely everywhere.

You need to calm down OP< you are sending some horrible signals to your daughter, and you will end up make her a woman uncomfortable in her body who will be scared by the male presence of a male!

Back in the real world, teenagers are just that, they need to learn. Girls are no better than boys.

neveradullmoment99 · 15/06/2018 11:30

He was definitely flirting with her. No, NOT a pervert. Maybe the wrong time or place but not a pervert. If It its a one off, I don't really think you should complain.

beachysandy81 · 15/06/2018 11:30

I think these kind of comments are quite threatening to be honest and don't think it is banter, definitely not the sort of thing my son and his friends would say (I hope). I would talk to the teachers as this sort of sexist talk should be stamped out and as the parent of a 13 year old boy, I would want him disciplined/spoken to if he acted like this. Not nice being worried about leary comments at 13. She shouldn't have to have quick responses to use back but it might be a good idea anyway to talk through some.

Frenchiemamax · 15/06/2018 11:32

Life is a process of discovery.

So how should this young man 'discover' that he's being a twat if the advice is not to report his behaviour? Wait until he says it to someones girlfriend/wife when he's older and gets a battering?

Feel shit about being a female because someone tried to flirt with you / mildly embarrassed you

How do you know it was flirting?

I feel shit about being female when I've got bad period pains but I can't say anything a man ever said or did to me would make me feel shit about being female?

Good for you.

PeppermintPasty · 15/06/2018 11:33

It should be nipped in the bud. Look, I saw an item on BBC breakfast about 'upskirting' that's given me unnecessary rage all day.

Taking photos of a girl or woman with the phone up or near her skirt. I can see boys and men thinking this ok as well as comments like this. It's not a huge step.

Quite apart from calling it that ridiculous name and not sexual harassment which is what it is, this is just the type of thing that girls and women are having to deal with now. People suggesting it should be laughed off as a clumsy approach, where's your evidence for that? I might as well state the other case-that it was the first clumsy attempt of an early sexual predator! Both equally pointless.

But, come on, this is not something that, just because it's widespread, we should accept. Fuck that.

I'm going to make sure I equip my dd with the tools to deal with any and all kinds of this shit, plus my son is going to stand side by side with women and girls fighting against this idea that any of this is ok.

I realise I am ragey. It's just so annoying.

MsJinglyJones · 15/06/2018 11:33

As kids get older they are going to look at each other's bodies, THAT's normal. And think "ooh ooh a girl's bra exciting!" or "mmm I like his arse" or whatever.

It is subjecting other people to a degrading, humiliating commentary about their bodies and underwear, in which you blame them for your thoughts about those things, that is unacceptable. It's always unacceptable but the problem it is it is mainly boys who grow up thinking it is OK and normal to do this to girls. And no wonder when the same attitudes are often spouted by parents and teachers.

Having this attitude is linked to much worse harassment and abuse and assault because the attitude is that girls deserve to suffer, feel responsible, feel humiliated, and be dominated. If that same mindset continues to the point where the boy becomes a male student alone in a room with a female one, or an entitled, dominant man in a relationship with a woman, that's why we have the problems with sexism, assault, rape and general misogyny that we do. That's why women end up starting desperate threads about being pressured and coerced into sex by their OH. Or bullied, or emotionally abused, or just left to be responsible for everything. Because society tends to bring many boys up to be entitled, domineering, aggressive, woman-hating twats.

RoseWhiteTips · 15/06/2018 11:35

Fgs. He is a normal teenage boy. You would be regarded as silly to complain.

Snowflake territory time.🙄

scottishdiem · 15/06/2018 11:36

I think that the boy needs to be told to get a grip for being distracted.

But so does the OP for thinking that noticing a bra makes him a pervert. Afterall he is saying he can see it and finds it distracting. Not "ooh I can see it, wear a sexier one....".

Pervert.....ffs.

MsJinglyJones · 15/06/2018 11:36

And actually yes, I do think there is an overlap with flirting (though in this individual case that's not clear). Because it is part of this sick inequality and misogyny to "flirt" or show interest by being essentially quite aggressive and beating a girl down - similar to negging.

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