Locked 17 year old out all night

[BreadOfJesus]

Had many issues with DS (17), drugs, binge drinking, Theft, violence - basically just being a wrong un.

I've had every service imaginable in to try and help him, social services, drug liaison, police, youth justice, cahms - nothing has helped.

We have a rule that he must be in by 11 otherwise the doors get locked. He breaks this rule constantly and often comes in around 11.30 - 12am. The reason the rule is there is because sometimes he doesn't come home all night meaning the doors are unlocked all night, plus he's been known to sneak his mates in during the night (homeless drug dealing mates, not little Johnny from around the corner) and he sneaks about the house stealing.

So anyway, last night it's 11.40pm and I text him asking where he was. He replied that he'd missed "the shitty last bus" so didn't know what time he would be home but instructed me to leave the house unlocked for when he did arrive. I refused. He sent more messages saying he "wasn't being a cunt on purpose" etc etc and that I was paranoid about the house and it was ridiculous. I sent a final message saying "be in by 12am otherwise the door is getting locked and I'm going to bed". Had no reply so did just that.

WIBU to do so? Sounds awful but I look forward to the day he says he's moving out completely. It's so stressful having him here.

I think the op is absolutely not unreasonable to lock the door. However, drinking or drugs can be an escape from something (even if it's just so fun and I feel amazing- why cant you tolerate without it ) and working that out might hold clues about alternative lifestyle changes which might work. Is he a shy kid really and gets confidence from it, was he bullied and lacks confidence and seeks the cameraderie, is he feeling rejected by someone along the way and is he escaping how that feeling manifests in daily life. All sorts. All the reasons we are all or probably have used things that aren't good for us to feel better.

Lighthousesouth: also, the care system now recognises that throwing kids out at 18 and leaving them to get on with it, is ridiculous, so their remit to protect and support young people who have been in care, extends till the age of 25.

This is why it would be a very good idea to get this YP into care now, when he's 17. When he's 18, he's technically an adult and it's too late to put him into care.

QueenoftheNights Mon 28-May-18 12:15:58
"have a right to go to sleep without worrying that the local drug dealers and addicts are going to have the run of their house during the night.

I think this is a hyperbole."

Well, it's what the OP said had happened in her opening post: "he's been known to sneak his mates in during the night (homeless drug dealing mates...)", just before she mentioned the stealing. In a later post she stated that the 19yo has left home because he could no longer cope with having his stuff stolen. So presumably not just money, then. Let's face it, if somebody was desperate to pay their drug dealer, why would they be stumped by the actual cash being locked up? Computers, television, iPads can all be flogged. There is a limit to how much the OP can lock up in her bedroom every night.

As for what has happened, she also mentioned that the 17yo has been arrested for common assault and criminal damage.

OP yanbu. I really feel for you and wish you well. This situation can happen to any parent, ignore all the crap on this thread about loving him! It's pretty fucking obvious you love him. It doesn't mean you have to take endless shit.

Thanks for links re adolescence
I'm well aware of the care issues but see that as very different

So the OP's 19 year old, any posters have thoughts on how to help him?

Op if you can get the 17 year old into care, I would. I'm so sorry this is happening.

The OP and the SD needs to kick the boy out.

Unfortunately it should have been done before the other 19 year old was forced to leave home but it should still be done.

If he wants to take drugs and hang around with druggie mates, then he can do in the care of social services. Once he's hit rock bottom if he then wants to sort himself out - which he may never do - then he can ask for help.

Adolescence lasts till 25

Does it shit! I don't care what the link says it's a load of bollocks.
I do believe lots of kids remain immature well into their 20s but it's more likely to be because they have been over protected and not been allowed to learn how to be independent or confident.
The number of kids these days who aren't allowed out to play or go out with their friends until high school is ridiculous and kids still living at home and not having to lift a finger or contribute to household finances even when they earn decent money all contributes to them being immature.
It's bloody awful that excuses are made for grown up kids being useless.

My son is 45, still waiting for him to mature

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/temporary_housing_if_youre_homeless/help_if_youre_16_to_25_years_old

Is it worth getting in touch with a Shelter advisor? Apologies if you have already seen this.

You need to make him homeless and then he will get emergency help if he can't live with a family member. It's the only way and because of your mental health SS will have to listen but you have to refuse to back down.

What is your relationship like with his dad as he should be supporting you more if it's making you ill.

Has he got a social worker? Have you got a CPN or a support worker yourself?

The only other thing I can suggest is saying you will report him to the Police if he doesn't move out or meet you halfway and follow it through.

Inter railing?? !!Only on Mumsnet.

You've said that he stays out over night whenever he wants so obviously, he has places to stay.
mumeeee, he can't have a key as he sneaks in drug dealing mates and sneaks around the house stealing.
I would deal with him the best you can and As soon as he's 18 tell him he can't stay with you any more.

@corythatwas The reason I said it was hyperbole was because one poster used the word 'ransack'. I know the OP said he'd stolen stuff.

On the one hand the OP says they'd be woken up by him coming in late and yet they aren't woken up by him and his mates stealing stuff in the house (when they are in, I assume.) Or maybe it's only when they aren't in.

I want to know the whole story; he has money so where is it coming from? Does the OP give him money? Is he a dealer too?

I don't know how anyone can say that handing him over into care is going to help. Boys who go off the rails need consistent, loving care and boundaries. They are unlikely to get this in care.

I have worked with teens who were in care, and also ex offenders.

OP if you are reading still, it might be worth writing to or even trying to get an appt with someone like Prof Tanya Byron (child psych) who specialises in teen issues like these. Be cheaper than funding a trip for him to CampAmerica!

[[http://www.professortanyabyron.com/clinician/clinical-work.php]]

www.professortanyabyron.com/clinician/clinical-work.php

Yanbu I feel you pain. 16 year old son. Adhd and asd smokes weed terrible behaviour last year violence threats mixing with wrong crowd in trouble with police. I could have happily chucked him out at points. But we stuck with it. His behaviour was a sign of deep unhappiness and frustration. It's still tough at times but he has gone from being in regularly passed 1am to getting in at the times we set out. We do t give him a key as we need to ensure he gets in safe and don't yet trust him enough to have one. While he lives with us he has to respect our rules. He stopped mixing with thexrrally awful group he was with but it was his choice. That was a key part of changing
We also had him arrested during one violent episode and told him if it happened again we would press charges so he knows we won't put if with it anymore. 90% of the time I see the boy we know and love.

Silly really, as 25 years and under are grown adults, able to get a job, mortgage, married, have a family etc, responsibilities. This infantalises them, and makes them think that they can arse around as they are still adolescents. In my world adolescents is pre adulthood, and is anything under 18, extending it is absolutely bonkers. There are young adults still, whose parents find jobs for them, and insist on going into interviews with them, and phoning in if they are sick. At 20, if I was sick from work, I had to phone myself, I did everything by myself.

gottagetmoving Yep agreed. Childhood is being lengthened because some kids are being ridiculously over protected.

It's only on MN (or in the Daily Fail) that you find people disagreeing with research and science.

(Adolescence till 25...)

The research was based on brain development, not some random Prof saying 'Ooooh, let's call them adolescents till they are errr...25. Everyone agree? Okay, fine.'

Of course people can have jobs and responsibilities before age 25. The research doesn't say they can't.

Queen I feel like you're not reading op posts

And yes, I could steal quietly, I'm not an elephant, it's easy to do.

What is your suggestion, other than sleb psychology? What action could OP take today to help the situation?

Queen obviously isn't living in the real World. There are teenagers who get in with the wrong crowd and go off the rails and sometimes there is nothing the parents can do.
Obviously, OP has been through a lot with her son and even had her elder son moving out because he can't stand the stealing and disruption any more.
If she tells SS that he can't stay any more he will not be left on the streets at 17. She would be better off doing that now as SS can access agencies to help him better than she can.
At the end of the day, we all make choices! How he wants his life to be is up to him.
I certainly wouldn't be putting up with any more of his shit.

Horrible situation but 11is very early as a curfew: almost asking for trouble in terms of him failing. Could you leave him a key out somewhere when he’s going to be late and attach the key to something so bulky and heavy that there’s no chance of him swiping it?

Sending him back to his gm sounds like it might have some effect if she will have him. Creating distance from this crowd is key. If he could be helped into some kind of work whilst there, even better.

And for those suggesting Camp America just 🤣🤣🤣. Have you any idea whatsoever how picky they are? It similar to getting selected for Oxbridge judging by my friend’s dd’s experience.

@Lighthouse I assure you I am reading the OP's posts. But lots of other posters aren't.

I notice the OP hasn't come back now once posters have asked what may be difficult questions, such as how this all happened ( and it will be a going back over many years.)

@Honkywonkwoman I can also assure you I am very much in the real world. Maybe some posters aren't reading my posts because I said that I have worked with ex-offenders who wanted to 'make good' , as well as very difficult teens , which is perhaps more than some posters here.

And your comment over Tanya Byron is cheap.
she is not a sleb ..she may be on telly etc but she is very much a practising child psychologist running a professional practice. It doesn't have to be TB- the OP could find someone else.

Matilda any access to a key will mean his dodgy mates come in.

Queen, your suggestion is a psychologist. Do you think he will attend?

I suspect OP is frustrated at how many barely read her first post!

What's your suggestion for the 19 year old driven out of his home?

Exactly, any access to a key will be abused by this young man, who will also invite his dodgy mates in as well, which op certainly does not want. Judging by what op has written, he will not attend, she has stated that he has had many outside support which has fallen by the wayside, including Cahms, which is Child and Adolescent Mental Health services.

The tight curfew in these circumstances, is totally justified, he has to earn the extra time which he is unable to do, and is demonstrating that he cannot act responsibly as yet.

Yes, just kick the kids out when parenting gets difficult. Make it someone else's problem - the grandmother's, social services, the council's .

Parenting doesn't just end when the kid gets to 18.

The OP should be doing whatever it takes to get her DS out of the situation he's in, even if that means moving away from the crowd he's got involved with, not just leaving him on the streets and washing her hands of him. If he's involved in criminal activities, she should be informing the police.

WannaBeWonderWoman I totally agree.