To try to access dd’s phone messages?

[CosyLulu]

Dd is 15.5, currently very depressed and off school (3 months) with severe social anxiety. At a social anxiety group, organised by her CAMHS team she got friendly with a boy who is 18 and hasn’t been in school for nearly 2 years.

As they are both at home all day they literally message non-stop. They don’t stop for mealtimes, movies, family gatherings etc. They message until 3am or later some nights. I have talked to dd about this so many times and all that happens is her getting incredibly upset.

Early on, he announced to her that he was in love with her but she made it clear to him that she didn’t feel the same way and I don’t think she does fancy him - dd is 5,9 and he is 5,3 and v small for his age. This doesn’t appeal to her she says it makes her feel awkward.

However they are v touchy-feely together, makes dh and I v uncomfortable and he has tried to talk to the boy about it. It’s hard to talk to either of them as they are both so depressed and anxious. Dh and I have vowed never to leave them home alone together nor to allow them to use dd’s room together.

I’ve never read dd’s diary or seen her phone messages but a couple of weeks ago I saw her diary - she’d brought it in to the lounge to show me a picture she’d drawn. As I’m generally extremely worried about her, I read it. There was a lot of v troubling stuff about her depression but also that this boy had asked her to give him a “hand job” and she didn’t “know how to do it.” I came clean and told her I’d read it and that it was not right for him to ask her to do it, especially as they are supposedly just friends. She made some v weird excuses about friends helping each other out

Anyway lately the boy is trying to persuade dd to go to hs house where they have to be alone in his room as he says the downstairs is messy and chaotic (big family) and they have 2 cats - dd highly allergic to cats.

I have said no. I feel that dd is too naive and too vulnerable at the moment to find herself in a situation with him that she can’t control. He is very clever and she, well, she’s a space cadet really - she listens to him too because he is older. It is causing a lot of stress that I’ve said no and he is messaging her about it a lot. I have said I will talk to them both in person when he comes over on Wednesday. She is dreading it and begging me not to mention the “hand job” part.

I would really like to read her messages from him. I’m so stressed and worried about her that I don’t know if I’m over-reading into this and should give her more freedom. But if he’s manipulating her in some way then I feel I need to know.

Actually I have no idea how to read messages - her phone is locked and she uses so many different apps I wouldn’t know where to start.

I’m sorry this is such an essay but what would you do?

Do you have any parental controls on the phone at all or can she access whatever she likes?

I really do hear you when you say why you are allowing her to be on her phone overnight but it just seems such a destructive thing to Mental Health and general health wise. I know you know that though.

Are you the account holder for the phone?

I would absolutely speak to CAMHS about this. They may not need to do anything, but they also might. Or they may just want to know to keep an eye.

I've been involved in leading youth groups in the past, and we would have been very careful if we knew something like this was happening, especially given the respective ages and their vulnerabilities.

They may well also be able to give you support and advice in dealing with it.

Do they still attend the CAMHS group together? Or do either/both see individual counsellors or anything like that?

sugarpiehoneyeye she loves art and is amazingly good at it. She does less right now but still does a bit. I’ve never asked about horses but she does love animals. Getting her out can be hard though because of her anxiety.

SoFake - she has her own iPhone account which ironically I set up to keep my messages private.

ThePencil CAMHS have been v unhelpful re the boy and what’s happened, especially now he’s 18 and no longer with them. That’s why I wrote the letter of complaint. The group was only for 6 weeks at the end of last year.

Op - it's the law and councils have to provide education. That in itself will help get your daughter to some sort of normality. IF there is not an immediate panel response today then threaten them with the law. This is a summary of a recent ombudsman's case.
www.lgo.org.uk/information-centre/news/2017/dec/boy-misses-two-terms-of-education-because-of-lack-of-support-from-council
Different reasons I know but the principle is the same. The school is initially responsible and then it becomes the LA's responsibility. If there is any further delay, (we'll set up a meeting in a couple of weeks and then the place will be available in a further month etc etc), then ask for their complaints form - tell them you'll be complaining about their failure to provide education and are likely to head for the ombudsman. It may well kick start them.
Good luck with all this.

OP, you are getting a bit of flack here for not parenting. I know its fucking hard, lets not deny this.

What I found. Dd was depressed (various reasons). The chap could relate to her as, he was too. However, this chap knew exactly what to and what not to say, to prompt a response to make HIM feel better about himself. And my dd knew what NOT to say, to make him feel worse about himself. And so it went on.... But as it went on, how he felt, and his feelings were far more important than dd's. If she wanted to have an early night and not speak to him, he would threaten all sorts, so she felt obliged to continue. The things that he was thinking of doing was endless, he had no one else to talk to, she was the only one who understood. Etc Etc. The result of this...... is that although dd was depressed herself, she become MORE depressed as was carrying all his shit on her shoulders. That is a lot for a 14 year old to handle. There were also the comment that he was the only one that understood her, no one else would know how it feels, they are going through this together, they must stick together etc.

So yes, I stepped in. It wasn't pretty and it goes further than this in our instance.... but the route of it all, is that HIS needs were prioritized and hers were set aside. I bet if you do get a chance to read these texts, is more about him than your dd.

And yes, there will be upsets when you limit the phone use. Its a vicious circle, this is causing her to be more depressed, I will bet my bottom dollar on it. The cycle must break. You are going to be the bad guy here, but this constant communication has to stop. He is flooding her brain, no wonder she isn't coping. She is still just a child. She doesn't have to have this burden on her. She needs to see ahead just for her, not with him in the background constantly.

The first step would be to reduce contact with the phone. I know, I know.... what you are thinking. IF you do that, it will make her worse. Yes, but the cycle has to break somewhere. And you are her parent, and she needs you to help here. As my dd now says, she was in a spiral that she didn't know how to get out of. She couldn't even talk to me about it, as she didn't know where to start.

I know how you feel. You are a good parent and don't let anyway let you think otherwise. Its a shitty situation but she needs help to stop the spin.

I may have this wrong, I don't know your situation. But if any one this rings true........................

Oh yes ThePencil dd no longer sees the counsellor at CAMHS who was totally useless and uninterested but she sees a psychiatrist there and a clinical psychologist. They seem certain these is a neurological issue with her and I tend to agree.

isthismylifenow that dynamic you describe sounds v similar. I am pretty sure dd doesn’tvopen up much to him because she’s mentioned that he gets frustrated that she won’t. She is not much of a communicator at all really, she finds words and emotions difficult to express.

Cosy, I've been where you are and it's hell. A couple of things. You are being far to nice to the young man involved. He seems nice when he's in your company, well yes, of course he does, he needs to be. However your dd is frightened of hurting his feelings and triggering suicidal ideation in him. That means he has manipulated her. What she needs to know is that she can walk away from this and that anything he chooses to do after that is his decision and nothing to do with choices she makes. You can't be her parent at the moment, as you say, it's not what she needs, but you can be a) her friend and b) her responsible adult, the person that enables the choice to break free from this chap.
The other thing is, dd is so much better now. She is off suicide watch, has blocked the person that was manipulating her, and hasn't self harmed since the begininng of the year.

I hope things improve soon.

PS. If you mention the police being involved because dd is under age, you may find he backs off a touch.

gilead thank you. I will bring police into the chat on Wednesday definitely - I have already to dd.

Cosy, if she isn't opening up to him, then chances are that he is constantly updating her on his feelings etc. So she is his shoulder. And carrying his load as well as hers.

Agree with Gilead. She has to understand that she isn't responsible for him at all.

So very difficult. If you can get her to start some art projects again, she clearly has a talent that she is not now utilizing. It could help to be her outlet.

Is your daughter on Melatonin tablets to help her sleep? I would push for them if not.

A pp mentioned horses and I would very much second that suggestion. I don't know if you're aware, op, but horses are often used as really effective therapy for all sorts of issues both physical and mental. They're very effective for people where there are social anxiety issues because there's no confrontation, no conversation expectation and no judgement from a horse. If your dd likes animals it's definitely something to consider finding out more about. Your mental health contacts, or maybe another poster here, should be able to point you in the right direction.

Well if there "can't" be any tough love then be prepared for her to pull the mental health trump card anytime something isn't how she wants it.

SweetCheeks, do you think that's what op needs right now?

Oh, and my dd doesn't do that. Ever.

SweetCheeks you don’t know my dd at all. She has never pulled a mental health trump card ever. She is ill. I’d rather you stopped posting on this thread if this is all you have to say. It’s tedious, lacking insight and unhelpful.

My dd is ashamed of her MH issues if anything and really upset by the stress it causes us.

mikeyssister she is taking sertraline atm but I can ask about melatonin.

A friend's child in a similar situation uses www.recoveryourlife.com/forum , might be good for her to get chatting to some people who aren't this man.

I have no advice at all but I just want to say that it sounds as though you and your dd are going through a really tough time and you are trying your best in a difficult situation and this alone makes you a wonderful mum.
As for sweetcheeks I really hope you or another family member never have to deal with MH issues. You clearly have no understanding of depression etc. The OP daughter can not help how she feels, tough love isn't the answer. There will be times when her dd will literally feel like she is drowning under the weight of her own feelings and anxieties. I grew up in a house with a person with quite bad depression, they need support and understanding not to be told to get on with things. People with attitudes like yours are why people don't like mentioning mental health problems.

I was clinically depressed and suicidal at 15, and it's also been suggested I am ASD (never diagnosed). Everyone's different but what would have helped me was (as someone has already mentioned) a good set routine. I felt like I was floundering and couldn't think straight. I would have found it a great help if my parents had sat me down and worked out a schedule with me. eg 8am wake up, wash, dress, breakfast. 9am-10am Set chores. 10-1pm Study/read/draw/tv. 1pm lunch. 1.30-3pm Rest/sleep. etc etc Phone time could be incorporated into it at a set time, so she could let him know she could only contact him then. Having a say in drawing the schedule up would have helped me feel more in control and more likely to go along with it.

I'm sure this wouldn't work for everyone but personally, I craved structure and felt anxious without it. And just on a side note, my depression/anxiety turned out to be caused by a B12 deficiency, which often manifests as mental illness in teens.

Oh, and to the poster who's recommending 'tough love'... that is what pushed me into my first suicide attempt.

Just to add a possible idea to fill some of her time in the day, so she is not so reliant on him, you say she likes animals, could she arrange to walk someones dog for them, perhaps an elderly person, or someone who's out at work? Or even, if you think it's possible in your situation, get her a dog of her own. My MH is much better with a dog in my life for companionship and structure.

Are you getting any support as a family? I think it is all to easy to inadvertently let boundaries slip when focussing on mh problems and sometimes having someone outside the situation can help bring perspective. Is ewo involved?

OP - when I was 15 I had an 18 year old boyfriend - it was pretty normal at the time, I understand she is vulnerable but please try to put her bevhaiour in some context of being a teenager.

I find your description of her phone addiction really horrible - you absolutely have to stop it - she is going cold turkey when you restrict her use - is it any wonder she is anxious and depressed when she has allowed her world to shrink to a mobile phone?

Using a phone at night is a known cause of anxiety and depression...