To try to access dd’s phone messages?

[CosyLulu]

Dd is 15.5, currently very depressed and off school (3 months) with severe social anxiety. At a social anxiety group, organised by her CAMHS team she got friendly with a boy who is 18 and hasn’t been in school for nearly 2 years.

As they are both at home all day they literally message non-stop. They don’t stop for mealtimes, movies, family gatherings etc. They message until 3am or later some nights. I have talked to dd about this so many times and all that happens is her getting incredibly upset.

Early on, he announced to her that he was in love with her but she made it clear to him that she didn’t feel the same way and I don’t think she does fancy him - dd is 5,9 and he is 5,3 and v small for his age. This doesn’t appeal to her she says it makes her feel awkward.

However they are v touchy-feely together, makes dh and I v uncomfortable and he has tried to talk to the boy about it. It’s hard to talk to either of them as they are both so depressed and anxious. Dh and I have vowed never to leave them home alone together nor to allow them to use dd’s room together.

I’ve never read dd’s diary or seen her phone messages but a couple of weeks ago I saw her diary - she’d brought it in to the lounge to show me a picture she’d drawn. As I’m generally extremely worried about her, I read it. There was a lot of v troubling stuff about her depression but also that this boy had asked her to give him a “hand job” and she didn’t “know how to do it.” I came clean and told her I’d read it and that it was not right for him to ask her to do it, especially as they are supposedly just friends. She made some v weird excuses about friends helping each other out

Anyway lately the boy is trying to persuade dd to go to hs house where they have to be alone in his room as he says the downstairs is messy and chaotic (big family) and they have 2 cats - dd highly allergic to cats.

I have said no. I feel that dd is too naive and too vulnerable at the moment to find herself in a situation with him that she can’t control. He is very clever and she, well, she’s a space cadet really - she listens to him too because he is older. It is causing a lot of stress that I’ve said no and he is messaging her about it a lot. I have said I will talk to them both in person when he comes over on Wednesday. She is dreading it and begging me not to mention the “hand job” part.

I would really like to read her messages from him. I’m so stressed and worried about her that I don’t know if I’m over-reading into this and should give her more freedom. But if he’s manipulating her in some way then I feel I need to know.

Actually I have no idea how to read messages - her phone is locked and she uses so many different apps I wouldn’t know where to start.

I’m sorry this is such an essay but what would you do?

[BlueJava]

Gosh, so sorry you are going through this OP. I know it's very easy for me to type and very difficult for you to do, but you really need to take control of the situation and get him away from her. Clearly he's dangerous and she is vulnerable. As others have said accessing her phone all through the night and not being in a regular pattern will not help her depression and anxiety.

Is it possible you could go away either as a family or with her to get her completely out of her environment? Does she enjoy something that you could do together? (Anything from swimming to fashion to seeing a show). I'd think I'd aim to get her involved with things other than being in her room on her phone - even if she shows little interest and is grumpy.

[Tinkobell]

She's incredibly vulnerable and may be wanting a way out of this. I'd give a firm NO to his house and request. Your DD needs a lovely boy in time that's kind and interested in her......not her hand!
Keep her very close. She needs your protection right now until she's a bit older and stronger. This boy is coercing her and she's too vulnerable to say no.

[CosyLulu]

bumblingbovine yes, everything you’ve said is spot on. That’s the spot we are in.

Not meaning to be rude but people telling me to ‘parent’ is not helpful and is quite insulting. Everything changes when your child is so unwell as I hope you never have to discover.

[Pengggwn]

CosyLulu

What I mean is, perhaps it didn't happen, but perhaps your DD is having you on about thinking it is something 'friends do'. She is likely to be so invested in the lie that they are 'just friends' that she has said something that is actually much worse than the thing she is worried about, i.e. you discovering that she has lied and they are more than friends.

Alternatively, the 'hand job' thing was a plant in the diary? You said she showed you something in the diary, was that right? Not sure how many teens would do that unless they wanted their parent to see something. Hmmm.

In my classes I have had several students with small, slight, gentle 'best friend' blokes who follow them round. They are almost without exception, homosexual. Could she be trying to hide something more like that?

[blueflorals]

You are the one blaming this vulnerable child for leading an adult on.

So yes, I hope you are insulted.

[CosyLulu]

beyondtgepage do you mind me asking how it ended and how long it went on?

[velourvoyageur]

Just to say I think while I'm sure it's helpful to have a friend with anxiety etc I'd be worried this is the core of their bond and that either may feel they need to keep demonstrating 'evidence' of this in order not to damage the friendship. So where one may over time may begin to feel less low, they may feel pressure to keep that secret or even to try to stifle the change in mood.
Also a risk that it will be romanticised, 'them against the world'.
She needs friends who don't talk about these issues too, and clearly needs to be exposed to a range of perspectives, as it's easy to slip into a way of thinking where you see depression as normal. If you just have one friend and then your parents and no other social contact, you don't see this as a reduced world as such, but as big a world as anyone else has, and then if a third of your world is depressed, it's easy to extrapolate that as the general condition for the rest of the population, which is not helpful.
So yes she will resent you, but she is 15 and you can make her cut down contact. And def not a good idea to go to his house.
Plus if he mentioned the hand job after she made it clear she's not interested then he should get the message that he needs to back the fuck off - actually I think it might be worth mentioning, as he will tread more carefully if he knows you are actively concerned about his behaviour. If the 'friends helping each other' is actually his phrasing, then that's highly manipulative and inappropriate.

Good luck OP and best wishes to your DD.

[LIZS]

This relationship sounds as if it is contributing to rather than alleviating her depression. At very best it is codependent, at worst abusive. Short term she may cry but managing her phone time is probably the best way forward. She needs to realise that it can be self destructive to pin her emotional wellbeing on it. Set some boundaries, no phone at meals, after 10, in bedroom etc, limit his visits and yes involve the support group manager so they too can reiterate appropriate behaviour and boundaries. At 18 I'm not sure he should now be included in the same group as younger children.

[CosyLulu]

blueflorals I don’t know what you are talking about. Of course I am not blaming dd for anything. I pointed out to her that she should not give him false hope because she is afraid of hurting his feelings. You are not helping here at all.

[ExFury]

When they are both there maybe an idea to say you've decided to ban phones from the dinner table, that way he knows it's from you and it will give your dd time from him that she can't control. They'll bitch about it, and in the beginning she'll be itching to get away, but it's gives her a period of respite from him.

It's not as easy as parenting though. Trying to guide your child through suicidal thoughts is an absolute minefield. Parenting ffs.

Good luck op

[numptynuts]

What are you on about blue.

[CosyLulu]

velourvoyager yes, thank you.

LIZS he was in the group aged 17 but just 3 werks from his 18th. I have expressed my feelings about this by letter to CAMHS and my GP. The age was 14-17 which I feel is way too broad.

[Pretenditsaplan]

I have been where your daughter is. Honestly she needs structure. Bed at set time with phone taken away. Meals at set times with no phones. Phones being monitored (openly so she knows your doing it). Set amount of time out doors. A set amount of time being social. All she wants to do right now is retreat into her phone and forget about anything outside her bubble. She needs to be in the real world seeing people and interacting. It helps to stop the fall into the blackness being reminded other people are human too. I also recommend some form of volunteering. It'll get her out and about, give her something to focus on and remind her other people have it worse. If thats too much she could focus on things like putting boxes together for the homeless or armed forces. It doesnt have to be face ro face but she needs a project. I think thats how she sees this boy. Someone she can 'work' on.

[CosyLulu]

Very great advice from so many of you, thank you. I think the fact she has so little going on is a huge thing and yes, he is a ‘project’ in that sense. Maybe she is to him too. I need to break that.

When I talk to them on Wednesday I will discuss phone use and obsessive contact as well as laying down again the boundaries of where they can meet. I will mention the hand job though dd will hate me for it and gauge the reactions of them both.

[lightthedarkness]

Also, the LA and school need to step up. Legally they have to provide an education for her if she is too ill to attend school. It is not an option for them to back off. The LA's responsibility is summarised here:

www.gov.uk/illness-child-education

[Italia2005]

Cosy, I sense your utter desperation.
I wonder if it’s possible for you to speak to his parents, even though he’s now 18, as they must have ongoing concerns about him particularly as he no longer is eligible for support from CAMHS. You don’t need to disclose what you know, merely voice your concerns about the age difference and their increasing dependence on each other. They might be willing to make him aware of your daughter’s vulnerability and spell out the law regarding her age, etc etc.

[Jaxtellerswife]

Going against the gerneral opinion here but aside from the mental health concerns (I'm not dismissing them), at the risk of being shot this sounds really normal to me. Her hormones are racing around too just as much as his. Sexual feelings are probably there and seeing someone as the be all and end all at that age is pretty normal. Also the 'sex act' they discussed that she says didn't happen was definitely normal when I was that age.
I guess I'm saying yes, she's vulnerable and that's very important but this is also common teenage behaviour. I think you are doing great keeping an eye on everything op and have her best interests at heart. As for the people telling you to parent, I would say they are naive to think what's happening here is your fault or unlikely to happen with their kids!

[CosyLulu]

Lightthedarkness, don’t get me started on this - it’s been a nightmare. CAMHS getting everything wrong about the application for out of school lessons, people on holiday for weeks, missing / lost letters. Her case goes to core panel today abd we are praying she gets the pupil referral unit option - 9.00 -2.30 in a school of just 30 kids. She will only be able to do English, maths and art but she’d be out in a supportive environment and with other young people. Fingers crossed.

[BeyondThePage]

beyondtgepage do you mind me asking how it ended and how long it went on?

hi- it was a 9month full on relationship, a sort of 4 or 5 month phone/online before that (though they had met in real life too).

It ended because her mental health deteriorated and he was only interested in his own issues, showed very little "extra" support for her additional need. She started to see him for who he was, he said he was fed up of her nagging him and left the relationship, then kept begging her to have him back - the "keep the fish dangling thing"... and eventually he made it so bad (not keeping promises, phone calls unanswered etc..) that she broke it off permanently with him.

She was in pieces for a month, we are now another 2 weeks on and in a place of actual hope... we do have to keep her busy...

[chocatoo]

Another one saying ditch the phone. I hear what you are saying but that would still be my advice.
Get her to live more in the present real world. Old fashioned stuff like being worn out by a long walk in fresh air.
Have you tried having her sleep in with you so she's not on her own?

[Metoodear]

Yes and yes tbh we all should have tighter control from the off
My friends son is currently being groomed by an 18 year old he’s 14

[CosyLulu]

italia thanks.

I met his mum twice because as part of the group work parents were invited to two parent only sessions. So I learned a bit about him before I met him iyswim? She was nice but has been on long term benefits for depression so not working. She had his sister when she was 15 and him 4 years later. Sister is now 22 and at home and pregnant with her second child, she also dropped put of school. The boy describes his home life as chaotic - lots of arguments, no money to go around, nobody working etc. I would like to talk to her again but I’d have to get her number from him ...

[CressyBessy]

The phone needs to be in your possession overnight. You need to set some boundaries.

[CosyLulu]

Yes, keep her busy. I’m seeing that more and more. I’m starting that today.

[Sugarpiehoneyeye]

I'm so sorry for your very difficult situation LuLu.
Does your DD show an interest in anything, that you could cling to, and push her towards ?
Does she like horses, by any chance ?