To try to access dd’s phone messages?

[CosyLulu]

Dd is 15.5, currently very depressed and off school (3 months) with severe social anxiety. At a social anxiety group, organised by her CAMHS team she got friendly with a boy who is 18 and hasn’t been in school for nearly 2 years.

As they are both at home all day they literally message non-stop. They don’t stop for mealtimes, movies, family gatherings etc. They message until 3am or later some nights. I have talked to dd about this so many times and all that happens is her getting incredibly upset.

Early on, he announced to her that he was in love with her but she made it clear to him that she didn’t feel the same way and I don’t think she does fancy him - dd is 5,9 and he is 5,3 and v small for his age. This doesn’t appeal to her she says it makes her feel awkward.

However they are v touchy-feely together, makes dh and I v uncomfortable and he has tried to talk to the boy about it. It’s hard to talk to either of them as they are both so depressed and anxious. Dh and I have vowed never to leave them home alone together nor to allow them to use dd’s room together.

I’ve never read dd’s diary or seen her phone messages but a couple of weeks ago I saw her diary - she’d brought it in to the lounge to show me a picture she’d drawn. As I’m generally extremely worried about her, I read it. There was a lot of v troubling stuff about her depression but also that this boy had asked her to give him a “hand job” and she didn’t “know how to do it.” I came clean and told her I’d read it and that it was not right for him to ask her to do it, especially as they are supposedly just friends. She made some v weird excuses about friends helping each other out

Anyway lately the boy is trying to persuade dd to go to hs house where they have to be alone in his room as he says the downstairs is messy and chaotic (big family) and they have 2 cats - dd highly allergic to cats.

I have said no. I feel that dd is too naive and too vulnerable at the moment to find herself in a situation with him that she can’t control. He is very clever and she, well, she’s a space cadet really - she listens to him too because he is older. It is causing a lot of stress that I’ve said no and he is messaging her about it a lot. I have said I will talk to them both in person when he comes over on Wednesday. She is dreading it and begging me not to mention the “hand job” part.

I would really like to read her messages from him. I’m so stressed and worried about her that I don’t know if I’m over-reading into this and should give her more freedom. But if he’s manipulating her in some way then I feel I need to know.

Actually I have no idea how to read messages - her phone is locked and she uses so many different apps I wouldn’t know where to start.

I’m sorry this is such an essay but what would you do?

[lightthedarkness]

OP,
You need to to try to "replace" his place in her head with other activities. She has created a 'normal 'where he is 'in her head' all day and every day, so try to create some times where other people and activities become the normal.
Can your DH arrange to take her out each day - a coffee shop, the library, supermarket. Anything to get her out of the house and to create a sense of the outside world for an hour. I guess that you must be so stressed working full time but if you could find the space for some you and her time each evening? A trip to the cinema, a late evening hair cut, late night shopping for an hour, a walk in the park with the dog??
He is an addiction - and a toxic one at that. The only way to minimise his importance in her head is to replace the space with something more important and in the absence of friends, then you and DH have to provide that.

[CosyLulu]

blueflorals yes of course it makes things worse but it is distraction. Without it she is awake and suicidal.

[Pengggwn]

CosyLulu

Okay, well, it's going to be one of two things: either they're in a relationship (which, while it might not be ideal, isn't inherently awful even given the three years between them) and the hand job was one of the things that teenagers do, or, which is more worrying, they're not, and she was asked to 'provide' a hand job, which is weird.

If the former, she is hiding the relationship from you. I would be talking to her about the above options, and telling her she needs to be truthful because, if there is no relationship, she is at risk and you can't accept that.

[CosyLulu]

lightthedarkness yes I think you’re right. I am hoping that the pupil referral unit will help with this but yes, until then I will try to get her out. Dh is her stepfather so it can be sometimes a bit awkward for them - he’s only been in our lives since 2013. But I will ask him if there are things he could do with her.

[ElderflowerWaterIsDelish]

Just an idea, but since you can't get into her phone because it's locked or whatever,..have you tried reading her diary again,..you could wait until she's watching TV/eating a meal/having a shower...and quickly have a browse of it...since she's so open in her diary (she mentioned the hand job he asked for)..she's likely to have written in there what is going on with him and what her feelings are and if he's asking for sex etc

[CosyLulu]

pengggwyn I have asked her SO many times now and she says no, definitely not. Then I ask does he think they are and she is more vague. I suspect she’s keeping him at arm’s length but keeping him happy which I’ve explained to her is actually quite cruel to him. Part of my conversation on Wednesday is to ask them both what they perceive is going on between them. She will hate it but I’m going to have to do it.

[blueflorals]

It is not cruel to him.

Do not place this on her shoulders.

[CosyLulu]

Elderflower I have. No further mentions of him but lots of depressive thoughts. I feel like such a sneak.

[Pengggwn]

CosyLulu

What I mean is, stop talking about it as if it might be cruel to him. If he thinks there is a relationship and she is having sexual contact with him, that is a relationship. She can call it what she likes. If he doesn't think there is, that is when you need to step in. I would be saying to her, you masturbated him, okay, but if you're not and were never seeing him, there's something wrong there and I will prevent you seeing him again. Now, the truth, please! I suspect she will fold and tell you they are going out. Would you be less worried, in that case?

[adaline]

Can you engage her in other activities that distract her from her phone naturally? Things like sport (good for mental health) where she has no choice but to put her phone down to participate?

Spending 16+ hours a day texting a boy isn't healthy. Getting upset when you can't text that person for even five minutes is even more unhealthy. She should be having meals without her phone glued to her side for starters.

I think you need to do all you can to make this friendship/relationship less intense and scary for her.

[CosyLulu]

blueflorals I mean cruel in allowing him to think there is hope romantically. He does not come across as a nasty person - he’s tiny, skinny, v polite, chatty and besotted with dd. He is also very down and anxious emotionally. I feel suspicious but I am not 100% sure - dh and I swing back and forth on our feelings about him. It’s all so confusing.

[BeyondThePage]

my DD is just coming out of a "relationship" of the same sort. She also has MH issues and continually spouted the "He's everything I have so I can't just x,y,z"

He was only everything because he gradually shut everyone else out - including us.

We have the edge of glimmers of a happy girl now, a shadow is lifting.

[adaline]

I would imagine they are in a relationship but she knows you disapprove so she's scared to tell you in case you stop them seeing each other.

How much time to they spend together in person?

[lightthedarkness]

Adaline is right. I know from working with young people with mental health problems that there's a tension between the child's determination to continue with 'self harming' behaviours and parents being able to do what is in their best interests - ie, remove the phone. I suspect that you will have had the conversation about the phone at night countless times and have 'lost the battle' to date. However, if she is to improve her mental health then she has to put in place some mental boundaries and, as she is unable to do that, then you have to try again.

Would you be able to insist that she either allows you access to her messages OR the phone is given to you over night? Decide on a 'message'. "You will not get better if you are on the phone all night. Try to sleep between the house of 11 - 7. I understand that he is needy but YOU are our priority and he needs to understand that you need to rest"

If you believe that this 18 year old could cause her harm in some way, then you need to intervene - what alternative do you have?

[bonnyshide]

I agree with what a PP said:

• 1. She's underage
     

1. She's also encouraging a lad she doesn't fancy
2. She should be in school
3. If she's anxious/depressed at her age what's sge going to be like when she actually does have problems
4. Hanging around with other anxious/depressed people can't be very helpful in moving on*

Stop allowing her to text 24/7, it is very unhealthy.
She needs to hand her phone over at bedtime (10pm?) and wind down before sleep.
She needs the put her phone down for family meals, outings etc.
She needs to get off her phone and develop some more interests, meet new people and get back to school.

[Fluffypinkpyjamas]

You need to remove this toxic boy from her life. She is underage and vulnerable. He is grooming her. Step up and save her from this vile little sex pest.

[CosyLulu]

pengggwyn the hand job didn’t happen - I read her diary and dh and I have made sure there is no time alone that it could happen. I told dd that was what we were doing too. She seems to have it in her mind that it’s not a sexual act and is what friends do. I have no idea where this notion comes from but maybe him? He is an 18-year-old virgin btw and I would think sex is high on his mind.

[CosyLulu]

bonnyshide you have not encountered severe depression in a teen if you think it’s as simple as that. I hadn’t either and that’s why I’m struggling. As I said elsewhere on here tough love is not the answer - I tried all of that ages ago and all that happened was more self-harming and she and I at constant loggerheads.

[Pengggwn]

CosyLulu

Ah. Is there any chance she is spinning you a line about that, OP? You read her diary without permission; it's not surprising if she lies to you about the content (not that I am blaming you).

In all honesty, if they are never together in person and I knew that to be the case, I'd let this lie and try to work on trust between the two of you. 18 year old lads are of course interested in sex, but - not to sound harsh - your DD is your concern, not a slightly over-keen young man being led down the garden path. Just ignore it if she isn't at risk.

[blueflorals]

I am concerned you seem to have no grip whatsoever on parenting this child.

It doesn’t matter what he looks like. In the eyes of the law, he is an adult, she is a child and not even a child who can legally give consent, yet you are laying his feelings at her door. Stop.

You have no control over her. She is on her phone all night.

Step up. Parent.

[ImPreCis]

Ive come on to say exactly what lightthedarkness said. He is her distraction.
Could you take some emergency leave and wean her off gradually? So no phones; at mealtimes, 15 minutes spent in the garden together, 20 minutes walk, baking together, does she swim? Find a small private pool in a hotel and swim together, read to her, You know the sort of things she would like and cope with.
💐 for you OP

[bumblingbovine49]

I imagine she is seeing him as she feels she "can't do better". This sounds like she is being a bit cruel and I certainly don't mean that but she is so depressed that for her having someone like her is providing a lifeline at the moment. This sounds such an unhealthy relationship for both of them. The boy sounds like he is also desperately lonely and also in love with your DD. I think asking them about their relationship while they are together is not a bad idea. I would also take the opportunity to spell out clearly the consequences. (in particular the legal ones for him) if they do have sex.

I think if you are there she may more clearly say what she is obviously having trouble saying to him on her own. She likes him as a friend but not more. Of course that may mean he won't be around as much which is probably part of what she is afraid of if she doesn't have anything else (in her mind)

[MudCity]

I agree that your DD needs to find some meaningful activity and reduce the messaging / social media use,

I would seek advice from the CAMHS team and inform them of the situation. Maybe if they can also speak with her about friendships/relationships and activity, it will help support your DD and mean that the message isn’t just coming from you.

I say this as an ex-CAMHS worker.

[MudCity]

Not forgetting that CAMHS might also be able to support you in dealing with this situation.

[CosyLulu]

pengggwyn sorry, I think I’m not explaining well - they do see each other in person but we are in a flat, they are only ever in the lounge with dh or I literally in a room next door, all doors open. We never leave thrm alone and unless they are unbelievably fast and quiet I don’t see how it can have happened but I will ask her directly. She generally tells me the truth, even about self-harming - she is an unbelievably hapless girl in some ways which also makes her vulnerable. CAMHS have referred her for as ASD test in June.