Already know AIBU about baby sleeping

[Murane]

DH took the baby (3 months old) to give me two hours break. I'm exhausted because he sleeps about 6 hours at night and only has a couple of 20 minute naps during the day, and it's full-on exhausting trying to entertain him for 18 hours a day. I figured I'd have two hours sleep while DH wore him out, and then when I got him back he'd be tired, and DH would finally understand how exhausting it is looking after him.

He went to sleep
So now I've got him back and not only is he wide awake, DH has absolutely no idea how hard it is looking after him. And I've wasted my chance of having him looked after on a period when he was asleep and didn't need looking after anyway. I could have just had him myself, he'd have been asleep and DH could have had him on a different two hours when he actually needs looking after.

I have literally cried my eyes out. I know it isn't DH's fault that the baby went to sleep. But I was desperate for him to understand how ill and exhausted I feel, and he doesn't. And I was desperate for the baby to be sleepy when I got him back, but instead he's full of beans. Now DH thinks he's had "his turn" at babysitting and I won't get those two hours back.

Fresh air. That's the only thing that got my dd to go to sleep when she was overtired. Or a car ride. I would go out a couple of times a day when she was at her worst for sleeping. It sent her to sleep and the fresh air made me feel a million times better. I remember one evening walking the streets at 9pm and an 11pm car ride. If he likes to sleep on you then honestly i would let him for the time being, sleep is better than no sleep at this stage.
Is he really crying or is he just sort of whiny/grizzly? If he is the latter you can leave him for a bit before resorting to picking him up. Bounce the bouncer or if it vibrates turn that on. Does he have a dummy? Have you tried a sling? My dd hated it but I have friends that swear it was the only way they stayed sane. The night time sleep doesn't sound too bad for a 3 month breastfed baby tbh so I think it's the naps you need to look at.

Oblada I think we agree to disagree. My concern is that you are presenting the OP with what you call ‘facts’ which aren’t facts, aren’t scientifically proven and are essentially opinion. I’m not saying your opinion is worth less than mine but it is just that - opinion rather than fact. I don’t agree with co sleeping so I don’t agree she should try that first, I think that makes the whole thing an awful lot worse actually as she then has zero separation and potential for undisturbed rest at all.

For what it’s worth I don’t buy into the ‘4th trimester’ concept, its a sociological construction - describing the period of adjustment from womb to world - rather than a medical or scientific concept. It is not mentioned for example in any NHS guidance. I totally agree that the early weeks and months are very special and a time of adjustment for everyone but sleep training at 3 months, in a gentle loving environment, is just fine. Some mums go back to work at 3 months! And sometimes is in baby’s best interests if mum will otherwise self combust from exhaustion.

@Curiousaboutchoices
I love your posts and agree with every word you say.

Haven't rtft but when DS was 3 months, I'd go for a walk every day at the same time with him in the sling. I didn't it for me so I could get fresh air and exercise but as a happy accident, he start sleeping at that time every day and even went to sleep in his crib for a couple of hours each day at the same time. I'd have to breastfeed him or rock him to sleep of course.
That all went out of the window when 4 month sleep regression hit. That hell lasted about 6 weeks and nearly broke me! No naps in the day time and waking hourly every night!
Happily now, he has gone back to his long morning nap (I still go for a walk with him every day at the same time but in his pram, I then park him up in the hall or garden or wherever and he will sleep a couple of hours in there) at night we are finally down to just 1 feed most nights now (co-sleeping and still bf'ing) he is 6 and a half months now. Never did any sleep training. Didn't want to.

I didn't it for me

That should say I did it for me...

You don't 'AGREE' with the '4th trimester'? Fine, ill agree to disagree. I also disagree that the earth is flat for what it's worth...

OP - a book I've found useful - bf made simple: 7 natural laws for nursing mothers. It also covers the biological aspect of 4th trimester and a lot of interesting things.

Oblada - the fact that you conflate the ‘4th trimester’ with the earth being flat shows just how flawed your arguments are. Let’s look at the science. Of course there is no fourth trimester - trimesters are your biological pregnancy divided into thirds. There is no fourth trimester. That’s a description attributed to a period of time post dating pregnancy, not a scientific or biological part of pregnancy. Stop being so bloody silly as your overall ideas may well help the OP, but your ridiculous comments do not.

Assuming the baby doesn't need changing, what else is there to do at night except breastfeeding?
I was assuming he would need a change. So Dh pick him up, hand him to you, have him off you, change and resettle. So you literally move as little as possible and can get back to sleep easier.

The 4th trimester isn't just an attachment theory, it also refers to the development of the baby and the way we have evolved to have short pregnancies due to narrow pelvic bones (walking man!) and big heads (thinking man!) and there how much there is still left 'to do' once baby is out of the womb by contrast with other mammals. its actually a very interesting concept.

'And the fact that there is so much still left to do'

oblada thankfully there are still mothers around with your attitude and I agree with you wholeheartedly. The thought of sleep training a little 3 month old makes me shudder they are so tiny and their needs and wants are the same at that age.

He can go 11-7 if he’s a normal weight healthy 3 month old. He just needs teaching that you won’t go and cuddle him every time he whimpers

This statement is an utter crock of shit. Cuddling a small baby is bad now when they rely on physical touch for development?? Not every baby follows the same patterns as well - most 3 month olds cannot go that long without eating... besides, bf'ing isn't just about food and they NEED comfort just as much. The world can be a scary place at night for a small baby!

OP- you will get conflicting advice here
All I will say is to trust and rely on your instincts. Don't force something into your routine if you know it won't work for your baby. Only you will know if it's better to sleep train or to just accept it for what it is and wait it out... or ever find a middle ground between the two.

Put him in a bouncy chair while you potter round tidying kitchen/cooking or whatever.

Let him fuss a bit as long as he has you in sight.

Put him on his back on the floor with a baby gym over it and turn on a musical mobile.

I think all the people saying 6 hours sleep is plenty are being a bit harsh.

He really only sleeps 6 hours total? That isn't much, most at this age go from evening to morning sleeping and waking for feeds etc. So while you may be up every hour (looking at dd1) the baby is sleeping on and off all night.

I bestowed as much physical love and bodily contact on my kids as they would tolerate during waking hours, just taught them night is night and they very quickly slept 12-14 hours straight.

It’s all about context. Loving context, gentle application, happy babies. There is a huge difference between getting babies to sleep and depriving them of their physical and emotional needs. Had she not adapted and thrived very quickly I would of course have reconsidered my approach. That she adapted so quickly and became so obviously a happier, more rested, more contented, better feeding little baby was evidence enough for me. The difference in my mood, mental state and ability to look after her lovingly and gently in the daytime was also inextricably linked with being able to sleep properly at night time.

and I agree, fresh air, baby in pram, or car ride. At the very least it gets you out of the house.

I love the way 'sleep training' has such a strong reaction.

We sleep trained from birth. What did we do? well, nothing to do with leaving them to cry etc, but we did this:

-we made night times dark, quiet and not entertaining. We made daytimes interesting and interactive
-we deliberately introduced things to signal 'this is time to sleep' rocking, singing, musical mobile etc for dc1 a dummy worked, (but not for dc 2 and 3)
-when they fussed in the night we rocked the moses basket, put a hand on them, gently shushed etc rather than swoop in and pick up. Sometimes they went back off, sometimes they woke up fully.

• at 6 weeks ds stopped sleeping in the day and became overtired, cried loudly and long and we couldn't comfort him, and we had a nightmare 2 weeks. Then someone told me a baby needs to nap once they have been awake for 2 hours. No idea if it is true, but it made me try harder to get him to nap. For ds this meant a very quiet, calm room, dark and no noise, then he went off for a nap. He couldn't fall asleep bf, he never did, even as a tiny baby, and he couldn't fall asleep anywhere where there was noise distraction. Once we got him into a napping habit it was much easier.

I did bf on demand with 3 babies.

Had she not adapted and thrived very quickly I would of course have reconsidered my approach. That she adapted so quickly and became so obviously a happier, more rested, more contented, better feeding little baby was evidence enough for me. The difference in my mood, mental state and ability to look after her lovingly and gently in the daytime was also inextricably linked with being able to sleep properly at night time

Fair enough - and this goes with my theory about a mother trusting her instincts.
I know this wouldn't have worked my my son and he is now a content and happy baby who sleeps well. We both arrived at the same conclusion via different methods

That's great that it worked for you curious but just be aware that there is reason to believe some babies will not thrive at all and instead 'shut down'. So it seems best to at least explore alternatives first really.

Op my dd was the same. I used to sometimes take her to bed for the day. She'd breastfeed and sleep, I'd sleep and watch boxsets. It's fine to do that. You need to try and get sleep where you can. I actually think you could do with a day in bed to yourself. So a day when your husband is not working, he takes the baby, you go to bed. You rest, you eat junk, you do whatever you like in there. He can keep the baby all day and bring him in to you for feeds and then take him away again.

Your dh needs to do more. I breastfed my dd for nearly 3 years. She was a bottle refuser. My partner still did more than yours from the sounds of things, and he worked long hours too.

Your "break" when he gets home from work should not be spent making dinner and walking the dogs. Also, can you give up the ironing? What is it that you iron? I hope it's not your husbands stuff.

Op my dd was the same. I used to sometimes take her to bed for the day. She'd breastfeed and sleep, I'd sleep and watch boxsets. It's fine to do that. You need to try and get sleep where you can. I actually think you could do with a day in bed to yourself. So a day when your husband is not working, he takes the baby, you go to bed. You rest, you eat junk, you do whatever you like in there. He can keep the baby all day and bring him in to you for feeds and then take him away again.

please do this. you will feel better. Sometimes Dhs just need a little nudge ro k ow what to do to help you. he wont be being deliberately unhelpful he just doesnt get it. No man really can get the Bfeeding

Tried to make the baby sleep today. Put him to bed 2hrs after he woke up (with rocking and white noise). He wouldn't sleep. So I pushed him round the street for nearly an hour until he dozed off and had 1hr nap.

Took him out again 2.5hrs after waking and he dozed off again, only to be woken by a delivery man five minutes after we got home. Since then we've had a constant battle for the past six hours... feeding, rocking, feeding, cuddling in bed, bath, feeding... till he finally dozed off at nearly 11pm. Only to be woken five minutes later by the dog barking at a noise outside. I cried actual tears. I don't know what else to do to make him sleep, and I basically have no life.

The advice about taking the baby to bed for the day is lovely but in reality it just doesn't work for some babies. My DD would go bonkers if I tried to keep her in the same place for any length of time and always has done - some babies really do need more movement and stimulation than others.

I'm not saying it to rubbish the advice because I think for most people it's great but I remember reading it when I was at the end of my tether and just sobbing because I felt like I or my baby must be "broken" to not be able to do that. Actually she's just an incredibly sociable and nosy wee thing who likes to know what's going on.

It's a fight to get her to sleep during the day because she doesn't want to miss out - but if I don't get her to sleep she requires more and more stimulation to keep from crying. It's a vicious circle. So I know how OP feels.

Hi OP, being a first time mum is so hard, especially with no support. You are doing a wonderful job breastfeeding your baby. I have a few suggestions, based on my own coping mechanisms:
Make your husband cook dinner.
Express a few ounces or give a formula bottle at night. This way you can do a final feed around 8, head to bed/bath, etc. Leave baby to bond with dad. Dad can give bottle round 10/11 so the baby hopefully won't need fed again until at least 1. This gives you a good 5/hours to yourself.
Consider booking baby into daycare or hiring a babysitter once a week for a few hours. Give yourself a few hours to sleep or have your nails done, etc.
You need to look after yourself as well as baby OP xo

I have been there. that feeling qhen you finally think thwy are ettled and then you hear them crying again and your heart drops!! it will get better. Keep persevering with getting him to sleep in the day it will work evebtually. I would also speak to your health visitor and get some help. This is still newborn time. It will be such a short time. Do get your DH to do more in the evenings though, when he's back you need to be resting and when baby is awake and not feeding your DH can take over. Have you tried expressing and giving him a bottle?.

Oh OP my heart goes out to you. Read about high needs babies, it really helped me understand that no, it wasn't normal but that there was (probably) nothing "wrong" with my baby or the way I was mothering her. For whatever reason, some babies just demand so much more from their parents - more time, more physical contact, more movement, more stimulation. I got NOTHING done when my baby was 3 months old. She was cross and fussy almost all the time unless I laid on a constantly changing programme of entertainment for her, held her constantly, she spent every evening screaming her head off resisting sleep and from the age of 5 months woke up every 45 mins - 1.5 hours all night every night until she was almost a year. I thought I would go raving mad down days.

Do go to the GP and get him checked for reflux, CMPA etc because that can contribute (my baby is 15 months now a d I'm finally getting to the point of confirming she probably is intolerant to dairy in her or my diet, wish I'd figured this out months ago!). But don't listen to the people on here saying the reason he's fussy is because he's overstimulated - no knackered new mum goes out of their way to make life hard for themselves, you're stimulating him because he's crabby if you don't, not the other way around. And please don't worry that the poor sleep will harm how development. My daughter was crawling by 6 months, walking by 10 months, and now talks a blue streak and can count to 5, all well ahead of her milestones - so suck on that all the bitches who told me it was my fault she didn't sleep because I hadn't "trained" her to and that she wouldn't develop properly because she wasn't getting enough deep sleep. To the contrary, I still believe that part of the reason she didn't and still doesn't sleep brilliantly is because she is so clever - her brain and body are so busy I think she struggles to switch off.

Also, to cheer you up, with each skill she mastered I saw a marked improvement in her mood and her ability to self-entertain which made my life easier in increments. One kind La Leche leader said to me when I was at my wit's end that some babies just hate being babies, and won't cheer up until they get to a stage of independence they can live with - definitely proved to be so for my girl who is now a mostly happy, pretty independent if crappy -sleeping toddler who amazes me daily with how very very smart she is. It Will. Get. Better. XXX

Things that helped me (as someone who couldn't sleep Train in the end - she wouldn't have it and I couldn't stand it):

feeding to sleep if it works. I know all the books say not to but if it's the difference between getting up 10 times a night for ten minutes or 6 times a night for any hour, you do what you have to do.

Following on from this, side lying to feed in bed and co-sleeping - you can doze while feeding and you don't waste any sleep opportunities trying to "make the transfer". Give it a try one night when your husband's away and see if it helps you get more rest.

Stop trying to make baby happy all the time - if he's clean, fed and you need to get things done, just bung him in the sling (velcro babies really need a good comfortable sling!), tell him you're sorry he's feeling sad and do whatever it is you have to do (prep dinner, walk dog, whatever it is). It's relentless and soul destroying trying to cheer up a crabby baby who gets bored with whatever you try every 5 minutes. It will make you dislike your baby. Accepting he's just feeling shitty and sympathising with that while not letting it take over everything will allow you practically to function and emotionally connect with your baby rather than feel like you're battling him into contentment (and failing!). He's going through a lot. Let him feel his feelings and be there for him. It will probably make him no crabbier and be a lot easier on your heart and mind!

Seriously though it will be ok. You're doing your best. Think how fast pregnancy went. In hardly any time you'll be looking back on this and everything will be different (and probably much easier). Hang on in there!!!

Hi OP. Well done today. An hour long first nap sounds better than 20 minutes. If walking is what your baby needs to sleep, tomorrow I would put her in the pram and start walking about 90 minutes after she has woken for the day. And then repeat again 90-120 minutes after she wakes from that. And again until night time. Or if your husband is off at the weekend he does all that while you sleep.

It's so frustrating when something like doorbell undoes your hard work but

You are doing so well. Your baby is comfortable, looked after and loved. He, however, doesn't know that yet. Nor do you or your partner.

Partner hears, 'baby sleep' so is pleased to have achieved that.

It's a crazy, unique and individual time for everyone and the beginning of a completely new era. 12 weeks! Imagine if adult lives changed so much every 12 weeks. Yours, your DP's and your beautiful baby's have done so. But, one of has not been here before and is desperate to learn.

From what you say it seems DP is trying. You three, going by my experience, are going to have beautiful fun with your amazing boy.

Its horrible, the squeaking of the stairs. It just means they want to be with you.