To say no to summer holiday childcare even though she'll have to pay someone else

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

We have a neice who is 7 (she is DH’s brother’s little girl). Over the years we have looked after her quite a lot during the school holidays or when they have no other childcare. Her parents (who have been split up for some time) are always skint, and are vocal about this, which is one of the reasons we help out.

I don’t really mind looking after her, I only work 3 days a week and my own DD (5) gets on really well with her. I was on maternity leave last year and in the summer holidays I watched her 2-3 times a week, every week. I think it’s important to point out that there has never been an offer, from either parent, to look after our DC in return. when the schools are off DD goes to holiday club for £26 a time (on top of £50 a day Nursery fees for DS).

Ex-SIL is now a student and, like BIL, terrible with money. She blew her student maintenance grant on investing in Bitcoin (after it crashed) and on designer clothes for her DD (which are now being flogged on Facebook). She asked me to look after DN in the Easter holidays, to which I said yes and did so on my days off. She wasn’t at Uni but works in retail on a casual contract so was ‘desperate’ (her words) to work and earn some money.

When she came to collect her on the last day I looked after her, she was bragging about how her parents are selling their house and giving her her inheritance early, and how she is going to take her DD on 4 holidays (including one to Dubai) and put her in private school.

She does have a form for huge exaggerations so I’m not sure if this is true or if she will get the amount she claims she will (£200k). I'm not sure when this money is falling into her lap.

She has text today asking if she can ‘book us in’ now for summer holiday childcare, and said it would be easiest to know which Mondays and Fridays (my days off) I can’t do and work it that way.

WIBU to tell her to FOTTFSOFAFOSM? This may sound petty but I don’t see why some of us should have to pay through the nose for Nursery and holiday clubs, when she apparently has all this cash to flash yet wants us for free childcare. Like I say I don’t mind looking after DN, but it’s restrictive as we have to stay in the house (rural and car not big enough for 3 car seats), I make her breakfast lunch and dinner (paid for by us) and if we do somehow make it out we pay for activities, suncream, ice lollies etc. Not a penny is ever offered (but I don't begrudge it either). Are they (I include BIL in this because, whilst Ex-SIL orchestrates it, BIL is hardly forthcoming with gratitude or help) a pair of CFs, or am I being childish?

I won’t really to her to fuck off but I do feel like replying to say sorry can’t do any childcare at all in the holidays. It hasn’t been agreed beforehand BTW, I think they've assumed because we’ve done it every year for the last 3 years, we'll do it this year.

The message you've drafted is the sort of thing I'd do. I used to be a pushover for childcare but no longer, very strict now haha
You really don't want to waste energy on irritation with these people, it's not worth it. Just tell them what you can/can't do and leave it at that. In time you'll get really good at this.

We had a childminder for ds1 20 years ago, but due to both our work commitments couldn't always get separate annual leave to cover holidays, so mil used to have him and we paid her the exact wage our cm would have received. Why should she be inconvenienced for nothing? She absolutely loved having him and always refused the money, but she used to feed him and take him out and they all cost money. Well done op, stick to your guns and don't feel pressured into backing down.

calF

There is a difference between family members helping each other out and someone taking the mickey. The BIL/SIL in this situation have both definitely overstepped the boundaries on this one and are now firmly taking advantage of OP's generosity.

I would never assume (without so much as a please or a thank you) that a family member would provide childcare 2 days per week, every single school holiday, especially when they have to pay for the other 3 days. Especially not when it means they can't go and do anything on those days due to transport issues. I certainly would not assume that they would provide all 3 meals every day they were looking after my child, plus paying for any days out/treats whilst I contributed not so much as a packed lunch.

I think to assume your SIL will take care of your child on every single non-working day she has off, every single school holiday without then providing any reciprocity AT ALL and barely being in contact between times when you need to arrange childcare (which OP has said) is taking advantage of SIL's goodwill. And incredibly rude.

And given she is a full time student and then working during holidays she will be entitled to claim for childcare assistance through university, and if she is working more than 16 hours per weeks she will also be eligible for assistance with childcare from tax credits. If she is not claiming these, then that's her mistake. And shows lack of proper investigation of the options on her part. BIL is no better, he should be paying his share.

When you take into account that OP herself says after paying childcare during the holidays she earns £10 per week, it does add insult to injury really. She has made that choice in order to spend more time with her children and taken the financial hit that comes with that. SIL has wasted money and now needs to cut her cloth to match her means.

Had to laugh at her response: “I've looked at that link for DS Nursery and there's absolutely no way I can afford £26 a day how is that reasonably priced!“

Ye gods Cherry, how did you restrain yourself from texting back: ‘Yes £26 per day is reasonable but because you're a cheeky fucker who hasn’t realised slavery has been abolished in this country since 1833 has paid the princely sum of fuck-all towards your DD’s childcare then of course it may seem a little steep.’

The thing is for the OP it doesn’t seem it’s so much about money but the lack of gratitude. My parents live 5 minutes from me and occasionally watch my children if I have to go to a school meeting (two have Sen). I’m always hugely grateful.

Juelis, feel free to amend

I was thinking that the OP might not feel comfortable with full on directness

But you could add: ‘to be clear, apart from the two days agreed I will not be providing childcare this summer so it is important that you make alternative arrangements”

jacks11

Good post.

calF

Family arrangements generally work due to some form of reciprocation. It's not a case of expecting payment, it's that if you do a day for someone, they'll do something in return. EG, a sleepover, playdate, covering entry fees to an attraction, anything that shows some appreciation/reciprocation/fairness.

In this case OP has had none of that, and is constantly out of pocket as a result of looking after DN without even a thank you. THAT is what makes a CF.

Not sure if this has already been suggested, after scan reading.
Could you tell her that you have just realised that it is illegal to be minding other people's children, unless you are a registered child minder. You could say that Someone has called you out on it, and you are worried about being reported.
It's not cheap to become a registered child minder, and this is essentially what is being asked of you.

She is a CF, no doubt about that.

Could she not get a personal loan, until this guaranteed windfall appears?

@CalF123

Judging by your posts I can only assume you're either taking advantage of a relative and feel wholly justified 😳 or you're the one on the receiving end and you're trying to justify their blatant cheek.

Just to reiterate what 99.99% of posters are saying..

The SIL/BIL are clearly using the OP for free childcare.

They NEVER reciprocate, express gratitude nor cover any expense.

They just EXPECT.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but what does FOTTFSOFAFOSM stand for ? It sounds like quite a useful expression for certain special occasions and special people.

I can guess the first ‘FO’ and am assuming the last ‘SM’ stands for ‘some more’ but I’m of stuck on some of the middle bits.

I find it incredible some people on this thread expect actual payment from family members for providing childcare. Aside from a bottle of wine or similar, this is something I have never ever come across in my family or any other in real life.

Nobody has suggested that the OP is paid for childcare. However for something as regular and frequent as this is, just now and again offering to cover the costs of having an extra child is normal. It isn't just the food costs, but the OP has said that on the few occasions they have managed to get out and about she has had to pay for everything then as well. In return she hasn't even ever been offered the bottle of wine or similar that you suggested is the norm.

I used to take my nephews out for the odd day when they were young, and would happily pay for everything. But that was because it was just a couple of times a year and I had offered.

Kind of stuck on some of the middle bits, I meant

@YankeeDad Fuck Off To The Far Side Of Fuck And Fuch Off Some More

Fuck Off To The Far Side Of Fuck And Duck Off Some More.

A good ol' Mumsnet staple.

YANBU and they do sound like CFs, but personally wouldn't say anything. I'm sure your DD and DN would miss seeing each other and you've already said you don't mind. I'd be annoyed too, but I wouldn't let it affect the LOs if I could help it. That being said, I wouldn't be bending over backward to fit her needs either if she can't be bothered to return the favor or offer you some money to feed her child.

Thanks for asking Yankeedad I was trying to work it out too
Thanks for the replies!

Allergictoironing- id just stumbled upon this thread and saw your reply to yankeedad and thought you were saying that to him! Had to check to see what yankeedad had said to upset you so much!

Op - yeah just joining the rest of em. She’s a cheeky fuck. Definitely stay firm. Sorry about the piss tasting wine

I find it incredible some people on this thread expect actual payment from family members for providing childcare

Nobody expects payment, just the child's basic needs to be met (food) and entertainment costs

i Hate when people are entitled like this, it’s rude and frustrating. But- there’s your niece. I’m not saying do all the days the parents asks for but you will still want to see her and I’m sure she will like to be with you and her cousins. Maybe ask for a contribution? Or some reciprocal childcare in return.

You need to stand firm and not back down nearer the time.

It's lovely you've helped out in the past but it doesn't even sound like she has so much as had your dd round for tea or taken her to the park for an hour! She's just using you as free muggins childcare. Your dd will see her at their gran's house anyway so no break in contact for the girls.

I suggest you have a stock load of phrases ready for when she puts you on the spot or lays on the guilt trip eg

• I'm sorry that doesn't work for me.
• I'm also working that day, been asked to do extra to cover Jane at work.
• We have plans that day.
• That doesn't work for us.
• I can't help you unfortunately.
• A friend with an older child is hopping in our car that day for a trip, already planned.
• Unfortunately I can't commit to providing childcare this summer other than the two days I offered.
• NO.
• FUCK. OFF.

Take your pick.

Just read the whole thread. She is a big time CF and you need to be very clear that you cannot help beyond the two days you’ve suggested. Lots of suggestions on how to do that already.

I totally get the whole ‘it takes a village’ thing, and yes, it is really kind when family or friends step up and help with DC when people are having a hard time (in whatever form that might be). But it’s when it becomes a habit, a habit that’s never thanked for, or reciprocated or even really acknowledged that it becomes a problem. No one ‘owes’ their sister/SIL/friend etc childcare. If they can, and are happy to, great. If they don’t want to and the person ‘asking’ never gives thanks, never helps out in return, expects their child to be fed and entertained, it’s not ok.

I’ve been on both sides. I’ve needed favours when I was having a hard time and I’m lucky I have a good network of friends who provided that (family, not so much). But I was careful not to take the mickey and reciprocated when things were better. It can’t all be take.

I find it incredible some people on this thread expect actual payment from family members for providing childcare. Aside from a bottle of wine or similar, this is something I have never ever come across in my family or any other in real life.

We used to get the odd banana when we looked after BIL’s son on a regular 4day/week basis. Actually the banana was for his son. He came with some clothes and that’s about it. We paid for his nursery/mother and toddler.

However BIL was in a tough position, we were able to help. the son now 30 is doin well ( as is BIL) and all happy.

Thanks, Allergic and Yamayo ... that is an AWESOME expression, a bit like the fine china to be brought out on those special occasions ...

Calf
I find it incredible anyone would just presume that someone would look after your child 2 days a week every sodding holiday for years without so much of a thank you, never mind paying for anything and expecting op to be house bound for your convenience.

@Willow2017

Yes, the way she's behaving is extremely ungrateful but I'd view it more as helping my DN rather than the SIL.

I don't think the SIL is necessarily being a CF when she has a close family member in the OP who could easily be at home looking after her DD(while also looking after her own) but is now choosing not do so so.