To tell new parents not to make a rod for their backs

[PenelopeChipShop]

I’ve thought about how to phrase this but I really want to post it. I just feel like i’ve made so many mistakes and I don’t want others to go through the same.

My DC are 5 (nearly 6) and 2 and neither are good sleepers. I didn’t sleep train either of them and was quite laid back/ attachment parent-ish about their sleep, believing all the relaxed people (lots of them on the munsnet sleep boards!) who said that children will sleep through when they’re ready, you won’t regret the cuddles, etc. I was confident in my choice and while I didn’t judge those who did sleep training, I thought it wasn’t for us.

Well almost 6 years of sleep deprivation have taken my youth, sanity, skin quality, patience and all my confidence in what I thought was the right path. It also isn’t an exaggeration to say that conflict over how to handle sleep issues played a huge part in ending my marriage.

I am now a LP to two children who still don’t sleep, ex H doesn’t have them overnight (though he has said he will ‘in future’ - I think this means when the little one is weaned off boob, which I do understand tbf) and every morning I wake up sandwiches between them, utterly exhausted, and angry because it takes all fucking evening to get them to bed. I have no energy or time for myself, all because I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves.

I agree. Needs must, a rested parent is a better parent I think too. Mine have both been sleeping through since an early age and I did both expressed and FF, and didn't rush to their side at every whimper either.

Each to their own. We sleep trained DS early on. Made things worse, he was a terrible, terrible sleeper. A few months of co sleeping and he now sleeps through most nights. We persisted with the sleep training, and it was the worst thing we did.

I'm sorry you are struggling but I'm afraid there is no evidence to support sleep training. Sleep research does not show any significant long term improvements to infant sleep through sleep training methods.

I hate that phrase.
And i think the problem with that phrase, and giving sleep advice, is that all babies/children/adults are different. What works for you probably won't work for them and what didn't work for you might well br ideal for them.
My 2 didn't sleep longer than 2 hours together for 2 years each, and they're 2 years apart so i had 4 years without sleep. I didn't sleep train and i co-slept and it nearly killed me but i don't think anything else would've worked for us.
Sleep deprivation is a killer but I'm not sure giving new parents advice helps anyone. I wanted to destroy anyone who offered me advice (i was not that rational on such little sleep!)
Hope it improves and your ex decides to parent a bit soon

When my dc were babies sleep training didn't have quite the negative reputation it seems to have now and I did it. It was one of the best decisons I made, no unbroken sleep after about 3 months and grown teens are now perfect sleepers

Thanks for being honest OP! We've got a 5 month old who won't sleep and although it's hard to cope at the moment, one of the things that is worrying me most is that we will still be in this position in 6 / 12 / 18 months. Think this may have given me the confidence to sleep train in a fee months if nothing has improved

Oh dear That sounds tough and YANBU to have a rant. I think really it is about balance. Most of these books and baby gurus justify their extreme approach by arguing about how terrible the people at the other extreme end of the spectrum are. Gina Ford is as much as of a fucking twat as Dr Sears IMHO (and has never had kids either).

You have no way of knowing that sleep training would have improved anything at all

DD has never slept well, still doesn't at 2.5 years. DS has been a great sleeper from birth. I haven't treated them differently, it's just who they are.

Yabu because this is entirely down to personal experience and preference.

Mine are 7 and 3. One sleep trained and ff, one not sleep trained and bf until 2.5.

Both sleep well and have done since around 12 months old (give or take a month or two). If they wake in the night then they climb into bed with me and go back to sleep. No fuss.

(If I'm feeling squashed I just get in their now empty bed...)

Yes, I agree with you. For me, a proper nights sleep was my only goal while on mat leave as I was returning to work full time and knew, above anything, we had to crack it.
I didn't sleep train, just a fixed routine and dark rooms etc. Not rushing in at first whimper.etc.
Do you co sleep? No judgment from me, as can imagine it's easy to do if just you and an empty bed. At least you get snatched sleep even if you get constant kicks and elbows!

I night weaned (totally weaned one DS) attempted sleep training and still only had 1/3 of my children sleep through ( at 10 weeks old,) before they were 6 years old.
So you are being a wee bit unreasonable.
You just have to do what feels right at the time, there is no quick fixes in parenting.

yep I agree, I've seen the toll it has taken on some friends.

I sleep trained mine, and no they were not left to cry. they were sleeping through consistantly from 7-8 months, put to bed at 7pm straight to sleep, woke up anywhere from 5.30am though.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves

Yes, I’m afraid you are unreasonable.

I’m sorry for you because you sound like you have had a hard time but your experience won’t be everyone’s experience.

There is no “one right way” there is no magic bullet.

I didn’t sleep train my twins or night wean them before 12 months and didn’t have the same problems as you.

I know people who did Ewan early and sleep train who still have problems with none sleeping children.

I hope things get better soon.

It’s not too late, OP, you can help your dc sleep better.

We didn’t sleep train as such, but once DD was asleep she was put down and life carried on.

She was always put in the nursery for naps and we just kind of fell into a good sleep routine.

This was important as I’ve a chronic illness so also need to rest (a lot sometimes).

To each their own, no one’s way is the right way, it’s whatever works best for your family.

Why on earth did you end up with the kids full time? That’s unfair! If your ex pulled his weight you’d have half a week to sleep fine!

Icould have been as strict s strict with DD2, but she still would not have slept. DD1 was an angel! DD2 came as a shock! DS was a nightmare. None of them were parented any differently.

DD2 is now 12. DS is 11. I have just recently got them sleeping in their own beds all night. And I really mean recently, as in about 4 weeks ago. DS will still come into my room, tell me he has had a nightmare, have a cuddle, then go back to his own bed!

Sleep trained from 4months have a fantastic sleeper. Only the one child though next one might be an absolute nightmare

I have two bad sleepers too. I never sleep trained, but night weaned and stopped breastfeeding them both at 14 months. Eldest is three and I do see light at the end of the tunnel, but still rocking the youngest to sleep every night, he wakes regularly and is up for the day before 5am.

Your post has really made me think. I am going to start getting the youngest to try to self settle as a priority. I'm so exhausted. Sending sympathy and thank you for your post.

I sleep trained too and it was really hard but one of the best things I've ever done.
It's not for everyone and I get how some science proves one side and other scientific studies prove the other so I think it's just what you're comfortable with. I find it a bit like news bias, you can always find some kind of science to support what you believe, that's why it's so confusing!
Sorry OP that you have struggled with this, sleep deprivation is a form of torture for a reason. I hope you find some answers or help somehow and manage to get some rest, on you're own, in you're own bed soon.
You can have you're revenge when they are teenagers and wake them up from their slumber then!

You're probably right. I sleep trained in a very gentle way age 10 months or so, and it utterly saved my sanity.
Like a pp said though, it's not too late for you to do this.
Liking this though Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

If you’re willing to give advice I assume you’re willing to take it too. I’d stop breast feeding the 2year old. If there’s any bemefit it’s being wiped out by your current state. Then their dad can have them overnight and give you a break.

Our 3 kids slept with us for years, had no routine, and were never sleep trained. They were all very independent and excellent sleepers (until my daughter had to deal with GCSE anxiety). I don't think there is a rule to it.

I feel for you! Sleep deprivation is something you never appreciate until you have children who don’t sleep well! But it’s never too late! We have just got our 3 year old sleeping through in his bed! Why not try now?