To tell new parents not to make a rod for their backs

[PenelopeChipShop]

I’ve thought about how to phrase this but I really want to post it. I just feel like i’ve made so many mistakes and I don’t want others to go through the same.

My DC are 5 (nearly 6) and 2 and neither are good sleepers. I didn’t sleep train either of them and was quite laid back/ attachment parent-ish about their sleep, believing all the relaxed people (lots of them on the munsnet sleep boards!) who said that children will sleep through when they’re ready, you won’t regret the cuddles, etc. I was confident in my choice and while I didn’t judge those who did sleep training, I thought it wasn’t for us.

Well almost 6 years of sleep deprivation have taken my youth, sanity, skin quality, patience and all my confidence in what I thought was the right path. It also isn’t an exaggeration to say that conflict over how to handle sleep issues played a huge part in ending my marriage.

I am now a LP to two children who still don’t sleep, ex H doesn’t have them overnight (though he has said he will ‘in future’ - I think this means when the little one is weaned off boob, which I do understand tbf) and every morning I wake up sandwiches between them, utterly exhausted, and angry because it takes all fucking evening to get them to bed. I have no energy or time for myself, all because I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves.

Mine always went into their moses baskets/cots awake and learned to settle themselves. And we had a rule of no dummies/muslins/special toys. As a result, they were all good sleepers and reliably going through the night by 6-7 months. I never minded night feeds until they were 12 months, and by then it was a rarity anyway. We had a very strict bed time routine, and it just worked for us.

Parenting is hard enough without doing it sleep deprived.

I’m sorry you had a rough time.

I didn’t sleep train and I bf both of my children (including at night) for over 2 years each. One of them still likes to sleep with me. I took this approach because I feel passionately about not sleep training (personal choice).

Do I think my choices were wrong? No. Do I think it was an easy route? No! But what made it harder was constantly having to justify my choices to other people who chose to do things a different way. I’m extremely proud of what I’ve done for my children and feel that every parent needs to do what is right for them. I don’t think you would be doing anyone a service by pushing your view on to them.

Parenting is such a personal thing and it’s so easy to feel/be judged by others. My advice is, don’t give any unless directly asked for it!

I’m really sorry that things haven’t worked out the way you hoped though.

Self soothing doesn't necessarily mean leaving the baby cry

It eventually frayed our relationship to breaking point. I'm so sorry.

YANBU OP. There's no way in hell I could sleep with kids in my bed. DH in there is bad enough!
Had my neighbour into me in tears this morning because neither her, the 4 year old or the 1 year old had slept again last night. (Ongoing problem, she's cosleeping and breastfeeding)
Her DH has been in the spare room for about 4.5 years now.

Op, have you read The No Cry Sleep Solution ? It’s for bf babies.
Hope you find some answers soon

Parenting is such a personal thing and it’s so easy to feel/be judged by others. My advice is, don’t give any unless directly asked for it!

This is a great piece of advice!

I just think you've been unlucky, OP - some children are good sleepers whatever you do, some are poor sleepers whatever you do...

I did literally nothing about DS's sleep, and he has always slept well. I know people who have tried everything from Gina Ford to cranial osteopathy to Ferberizing and are in the same position as you.

All I would say to new parents is fingers crossed for a good sleeper, but don't blame yourself if you don't get one.

I co slept with my daughter and she is a brilliant sleeper. I really think as others have said it is the individual child. The only time there was a problem is when I was in hospital for 3 weeks and she wanted to co sleep when I was back at home.
She takes herself upstairs and will go to bed, after her bath.

You have my sympathy OP. My DD is 7mo and a terrible sleeper and I feel like I've made a rod for my own back with co -sleeping, breastfeeding all night etc. The sleep deprivation is awful. We've been a bit stricter lately with her staying in her cot and not picking her up all the time and it has improved things a little as she sleeps longer stretches. Some people might not agree with sleep training and think you should just 'Enjoy the cuddles' but for me i know my mental health problems will improve if I'm not exhausted all the time and that would be better for the both of us

Thank you, derxa. That short comment of kindness has made me well up.

but it's no reason to encourage non-instinctive parenting. But if you're a husk what's the point. Look after yourself.

I reread your post, OP, and I just want to say that I'm really sorry. My mum had a very similar experience with my and my siblings we weren't good sleepers until we were about 6 and I think it was a major factor in the breakdown of my parents' marriage.

The only thing I can say that might help is to try feeding a slightly heavier evening meal, and making sure both children get a good amount of exercise (preferably outdoors) every day. Also remember that any screen time in the afternoon or evening can affect sleep, and if you do this then consider using a red filter or nighttime filter on the devices that they watch on.

All the people who say they trained their babies to sleep, and their babies did sleep, and it was necessary because they as the parent needed to sleep - AAAAAAAGGGH.

If I’d had dc3 first I’d have been saying that too. I didn’t, first I had two babies who chose not to be sleep-trainable. If I didn’t rush in at the first whimper they went ballistic for two solid hours. Didn’t sleep well till they were 3 (years not months) and believe me I tried everything. They are now delightful teenagers who are both independent and apparently quite attached to me (and oh boy do they sleep now).

Dc3 was a revelation. He appeared to enjoy sleep. But when he was 4 he developed a medical condition that means I still get no sleep as he needs night care. He’s 10. Sixteen years of night-waking and counting.

OP, don’t give advice. Listen and be sympathetic and offer meals.

Glad you weren't around to give me advice, OP: I had a much better quality of sleep when dc were in bed with me.

But did very much regret not having dummies: meant dd was still sucking her fingers into her preteens. Would have been so much easier to have given a dummy away to Santa or something.

Just goes to show, one parent's rod is another one's shortcut.

By self soothe I mean let him grumble a bit until he fell silent. I initially was going to him every time and lifting/shoogling which just led to full on crying and he could stay awake crying for 18 hours even as a newborn! Letting him grumble for 20 mins when he was tired seemed much kinder than physically interfering which led to screaming. He wouldn’t co-sleep either, just fought. But second one liked co-sleeping and being centre of attention constantly- still the same at 10yrs. Can be draining still but I think I did second one a disservice trying to be everything to him and responding to his every whim.

Sleep training worked for my DS but I did my own version of it that I was comfortable with. When he cried we went in and settled him without picking him up or fussing him too much. It was back breaking for a couple of weeks but he now sleeps fine. Maybe he would have slept through anyway, who knows. I think you need to not be swayed by what’s worked for other people. Read the books, talk to other mums and decide what you think it best. Only you know your child. I’ve been criticised by other mums for sleep training saying I’ve traumatised by child but I don’t think we did at all and that’s what matters to me. One of the mums in particular is still I sleeping with her 4 year old and her 3 year old and her husband sleeps in the spare room and she moans about it constantly so 🤷‍♀️

You just have to look at the advice out there and give what you hope might work for you a go.

DS1 was a dream, fed once in the night and slept through from 12 weeks. Nothing I did, he was my first. I was clueless and he just did it. Naps were the same, he got grouchy, I put him down and off he slept, he was a textbook Gina Ford baby without me trying, although he needed more sleep than she dictated when I read her book.

DS2 was totally different. Fed all night long, would not go down for naps, etc. In the end I did The Baby Whisperer PUPD technique which had him going to sleep in his cot within 40 mins night 1, 20 mins night 2 and without a whimper by the time the week was out.

But I needed to do that, for my own sanity. I have a friend who has an almost 2 year old, still not sleeping through, feeding through the night. But she and her child are fine with it. So it’s all about what works for you.

I've never co-slept, been middle strict about not pandering at bed times etc and i've got one that slept through from 10 weeks, who now, at 9yo, cries and roars every night and through the night; one that goes to sleep no bother but you can't get them out of bed in the morning, and one who only started sleeping through recently, and still wakes afew times a week at 4yo. There is no magic solution, imo.

The best advice I would give any parent of a new born (I don't, as people don't like unsolicited advice) is to put your baby down awake and allow them to learn to sleep without being in your arms.

The only people I know with bad sleepers are those who over held babies, boobed them to sleep and co slept.

@MMcanny ah, ok. Both of mine would not have grumbled for 20 minutes, they would have become apoplectic, taken an age to calm and then the whole thing would repeat if I left them again to "grumble". Perhaps I was doing it wrong though.

Have you looked at naturally increasing their melatonin or whatever? Banana therapy! Also try switching their bed times to half an hour earlier. If you miss the sleep window they will always be a bloody nightmare. And for the love of god stop boobing at night. He's 2. He doesn't need it.

To the posters saying about “sleep training is neglect”.....I had a post natal doula and I told her I’d read Gina Ford and Baby Whisperer and she said “teach your baby to fall asleep on their own - it is the basis of good sleep”. So at around 3-4 weeks after he’d fed I used to swaddle him and put him in his Moses basket next to me. He had a dummy and I also put the edge of a blanket in beteeen his fingers. She told me these would be sleep cues for him. We dimmed lights and didn’t have the tv on when he was in his Moses basket. She called this sleep training. I think a lot of people assume sleep training is leaving a newborn to cry themselves to sleep. I thought this was called Crying it out. I was told sleep training was teaching sleep cues. She also told me a good routine with predictability would help and I still follow a similar bed and bath routine now and he’s 7! And a great sleeper. Yes I’ve been led next to his cot and yes he’s been in our bed and I’ve been up and down the stairs but all on occasion and not as our norm.

I have two ds who I suppose you'd describe as great sleepers. Did I sleep train them? If this means put them to bed awake, then yes i did. Both happy to go to bed as babies and normally slept through until 7:30-8. Eldest would have given you the biggest smile in the morning. Not remotely traumatised. Ds2 was much less grateful (we were but his servants). Not traumatised either, just entitled.

I remember my sister being here one evening and I said I was putting them to bed. Her jaw dropped when i came back into living room within 5 mins. Not a peep from either of them.

Now, at 6 and 9, we get a bit of early rising, night time bed-resistance and midnight bed hopping, but that's to be expected.

I co slept and be on demand. Ds1 slept through from 15 months. Weaned at 19months. Ds2 wakes twice a night a just over 1. Everyone and every baby is different I. I was repeatedly told I was making a rod for my own back.