To tell new parents not to make a rod for their backs

[PenelopeChipShop]

I’ve thought about how to phrase this but I really want to post it. I just feel like i’ve made so many mistakes and I don’t want others to go through the same.

My DC are 5 (nearly 6) and 2 and neither are good sleepers. I didn’t sleep train either of them and was quite laid back/ attachment parent-ish about their sleep, believing all the relaxed people (lots of them on the munsnet sleep boards!) who said that children will sleep through when they’re ready, you won’t regret the cuddles, etc. I was confident in my choice and while I didn’t judge those who did sleep training, I thought it wasn’t for us.

Well almost 6 years of sleep deprivation have taken my youth, sanity, skin quality, patience and all my confidence in what I thought was the right path. It also isn’t an exaggeration to say that conflict over how to handle sleep issues played a huge part in ending my marriage.

I am now a LP to two children who still don’t sleep, ex H doesn’t have them overnight (though he has said he will ‘in future’ - I think this means when the little one is weaned off boob, which I do understand tbf) and every morning I wake up sandwiches between them, utterly exhausted, and angry because it takes all fucking evening to get them to bed. I have no energy or time for myself, all because I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves.

I did attachment training for work recently and there are very compelling reasons not to leave babies to cry under 1 year of age

It is actually impossible for large families to avoid letting a baby cry on occasion.

I don't believe for a second that all large families are ruining their children.

Never had to sleep train and was fortunate enough to have a son that self settled and slept through from 5 weeks. Is sleep training controlled crying? I couldn't do that, I don't think. I do feel sorry for you, but think maybe you should stop breastfeeding the two year old.

I was told I’d make a rod for my own back all the way through the infancy of both my kids.

I co slept with them both till 18 months, fed them on demand, carried them everywhere in a sling.

I have the two best sleepers of anyone I know, they are not at all clingy and fiercely independent and I can count on one hand the amount of times they’ve ever had a tantrum.

ALL CHILDREN ARE DIFFERENT.

YANBU. I’ve been sleep training my twins, and at 3 months I’m just starting to have them sleep through the night. Just.

For me, I found all the info from other parents is how awful the first year is and that I’ll not get any sleep at all, and if I’d had advice from another parent saying it’s ok, I’d feel more confident I was making the right choice!

My DC are late 20s and I can't for the life of me remember what I did.
But stuff the gurus. Get those children into their beds.

I did gentle sleep training at 10 months when I realised DD was not going to magically start sleeping through while I was still rocking her to sleep. The way I did it didn’t involve leaving her to cry and it’s probably the best thing I’ve done but neither her or I were ready for it until 10 months and my motivation was returning to work. I think there comes a point where if your child isn’t sleeping you need to consider these things (unless you’re happy with little sleep) but not worry about it before 6 months and definitely not try sleep training until then

We let our first self soothe from 6 weeks. Did 12 hours soundly from there on in. More relaxed with second and he was still up in the night until 6 or 7 yrs old! Would definitely do the first way if I had it to do again. First one has always had the better temperament and I’m almost certain the healthy sleep pattern is at least partly responsible. Second child presents a more self-centred attitude and I think the more attachment style we used might be to blame. Of course it might not. I concur with your theory though.

Yeah YABU because your experiences aren't necessarily other people's experiences. You can say what you wish you'd done but don't give it out as unwanted advice.

Oldest DC is 17 and I did Gina Ford with him at 8 weeks when I was desperate to know what to feed him and when he ought to nap because all anyone ever said to me was "whenever he wants, dear," BUT I COULDN'T WORK OUT WHAT HE WANTED, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING.

This was before Gina Ford was seen as bad. It worked like a charm and he was so happy, he never cried! Had DD 18 months later and she went on to it too, they used to nap at the same time and I'd have 2 hours to myself in the middle of every day.

You could have knocked me down with a feather when people started to say GF was unkind - getting my babies into a routine was one of the kindest things I think I ever did for them. Mind you, I adapted it slightly to suit.

However. I can imagine that there must be quite a few babies for whom GF's routines just don't work. Trying to shoehorn a baby's day into a routine that doesn't work for it must be dreadful. So, hard to say really. Just because it worked for me it doesn't mean it would work for everyone.

OP, I hear you.

My first was a terrible sleeper for 4 years. We started taking it in turns to sleep in the spare room. I was exhausted and snappy, and felt lonely, spent hours on MN in the evenings instead of talking or relaxing with my DH.

It eventually frayed our relationship to breaking point.

I wish we had got a handle in it earlier.

It's not too late to get your sanity back OP! Admittedly it will be difficult but worth it to start practising good sleep habits with your two DC now. Why don't you night wean and start getting regimental about routine? I have an almost 5 month old and a 20 month old and with both of them my main focus in the early months is getting them to sleep well! I'm not a pleasant person without sleep so this is essential to everyone's well being. I never let them cry it out but I am fastidious about routine and it really works. DD1 was naturally a good sleeper so it didn't take too much work with her, DD2 definitely needed more "work" but we're finally getting there! I think there's far too much 'attachment parenting' methods seeping into mainstream advice and this puts pressure on parents to live in situations that are driving them crazy for fear they'll mess up their children. It's ridiculous. Hope things improve for you soon

I think that kids sleep differently and lots of that will be due to their biology. Probably many parents co sleep etc in response to their DC being a reluctant sleeper, so the association may be the other way round.

My eldest just would not sleep not in contact with me, the tricks that worked on friends' babies just did not work, if I left her she didn't settle she just cried more and more. I ended up co sleeping in response to her sleep reluctance.

Then after two years of co sleeping and breastfeeding to sleep she suddenly started sleeping all night on her own and is an amazing sleeper now and falls asleep on her own, despite my doing all the "wrong" things.

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time, but please don't feel that you caused it. And it would probably help if your ex would step up and do some overnights.

@Madonnasmum I'm in exactly that situation. Did it work? Any tips? I'm a woman possessed and last month paid £700 for black-out blinds in every bedroom

@MMcanny can you explain what letting your baby self soothe at 6 weeks old means? How/what did you do, or did he just self soothe without any intervention from you?

I hear you OP.

Nearly 6 year old DS has never slept through the night. Despite a strict routine, doing everything any book or other parent has ever suggested, he falls asleep when he bloody well wants. He would happily live off 5 hours sleep a night, he still has loads of energy anyway.

Meanwhile, I am at my wits end & also am a single parent. Working full time for 5 years on barely any sleep is horrific.

I agree op.

And I hate the fact that on Mumsnet, no one dare suggest sleeptraining to a struggling exhausted parent, because they'll be shouted down and called cruel.

CIO worked 100% for my children, very early on, I think a few months old. 5 mins of crying, first night only, 3 mins the next, and slept through every night ever since. Happy, healthy, well rested children and parents.

I am actually shocked that people on here advocate leaving 6-8 week old babies to cry. That’s not sleep training, it’s neglect.

YABU. I co-sleep, breastfeed on demand (including breastfeeding to sleep), etc. My children (DD1 age 5 and DD2 age 7 months) are BRILLIANT sleepers and always have been.

DD1 (5) can now go to sleep in her own bed all by herself at 7.30 pm and doesn't disturb me until 7 am the next morning. We co-slept until she was 4, and still breastfed. Now I'm doing exactly the same thing with DD2 and again we are both sleeping well. I've had wonderful nights for the whole time. I get eight hours a night of uninterrupted sleep and both started sleeping through for at least six hours at about one month old! I don't mention it to other parents in real life in case they want to kick me senseless, because frankly, in my opinion, it's pretty much all down to luck rather than what I'm doing! (And you can probably back this up since it sounds like you did all the same things as me, yet had the opposite result -- I'm really sorry. But please don't beat yourself up about it. It wasn't your fault, it was just how your children were. Mine have other foibles!)

So yeah, I think it would be bad advice to tell new parents not to do what they think is best. I'm totally down with everyone doing what suits them and their babies best, whether it's breast or formula or a mix, or co-sleeping or sleep training.

YANBU. Self soothing and learning to fall asleep independently is a skill that any child should learn. I was broken with my first born, I had no idea what to do and resulted in all sorts of tricks, rocking, feeding to sleep etc.

Once I started to follow a routine from the baby whisper book, it made huge difference. But it's not an overnight miracle, I think it took about a month to start to see an improvement. With my second DS I followed the routine from day 1 and he's a really good sleeper (he's now 7). DS1 is now 10 and still occasionally wakes up quite early but that's just his body clock. Because of the routine and sleep training, bedtimes have always been easy with them. They are not angels and often drive me mad, but at least bedtimes and sleeping doesn't.

@arethereanyleftatall CIO isn't really sleep training though, it's just not going to your baby when they're crying. I think most people would be surprised at you recommending that for a baby who is only a few months old.

Unless you mean controlled crying?

I think sleep training is just another skill you should teach your child. If your child wasn't walking by 2 you'd be at the doctors finding out why. Yet if a child isn't sleeping some parents are like "oh nevermind they will eventually" meanwhile the parents life is going down the pan.

Sleep training can be incredibly gentle and it equips your child with the ability to sleep. Why are we hell bent on not doing it?!

YANBU to rant about sleep deprivation although I think your main issue is with a father who won’t do his share rather than lack of sleep training.

YABU to give unsolicited advice to other parents.

I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

He was right and there is research to prove it.

I get it's tiring, mine are 5,3 and 2 and they've left me a husk too but it's no reason to encourage non-instinctive parenting.

@Helipad Children who have co-slept and been breastfed to sleep do still learn to fall asleep independently! Obviously your routine has worked very well for you, but bedtimes have been very easy for me too with an opposite approach. Whatever works!

I didn't sleep train. But did/do put DS down sleepy but awake and if he cries let him. If the crying escalates I will go in and fetch him out for a cuddle, keeping him with me until he is sleepy again. But usually the crying is just him releasing the pent up emotions of the day. Most of the time there is zero crying and he goes to sleep very peacefully.

YANBU for needing sleep and for talking about it.

YA a bit U for resigning yourself to the situation though. You can sleep train now and you can also get their DF involved in having them for longer periods including overnights.