To tell new parents not to make a rod for their backs

[PenelopeChipShop]

I’ve thought about how to phrase this but I really want to post it. I just feel like i’ve made so many mistakes and I don’t want others to go through the same.

My DC are 5 (nearly 6) and 2 and neither are good sleepers. I didn’t sleep train either of them and was quite laid back/ attachment parent-ish about their sleep, believing all the relaxed people (lots of them on the munsnet sleep boards!) who said that children will sleep through when they’re ready, you won’t regret the cuddles, etc. I was confident in my choice and while I didn’t judge those who did sleep training, I thought it wasn’t for us.

Well almost 6 years of sleep deprivation have taken my youth, sanity, skin quality, patience and all my confidence in what I thought was the right path. It also isn’t an exaggeration to say that conflict over how to handle sleep issues played a huge part in ending my marriage.

I am now a LP to two children who still don’t sleep, ex H doesn’t have them overnight (though he has said he will ‘in future’ - I think this means when the little one is weaned off boob, which I do understand tbf) and every morning I wake up sandwiches between them, utterly exhausted, and angry because it takes all fucking evening to get them to bed. I have no energy or time for myself, all because I thought Dr Sears was right about traumatising children who are left to cry.

Well guess what, he is a man who has never actually breastfed every fucking night for hundreds of nights on end. So he can stuff his theories up his arse.

AIBU to tell new parents to get their kids used to self setting and to night wean them earlyish (6-12 months) so they don’t end up like me, ie a husk of their former selves.

You right op. We never allowed dd to sleep in our bed which means she sleeps in hers every night. My sister also begged me to not breast feed due to pnd and attachment issues she had due to constant feeding during the night. I know this goes against mntters but i am vvvv grateful i ff. yes i know some babies who bf sleep etc but in my case dh could feed dd whilst i went to bed 8pm ish he bring her up 11pm fed and changed and i woke again 1am and 4am for the feeds until she slept through at 3 months. Id sleep from 8pm-1am so a great chuck. Its hard enough being a parent without dealing with the lack of sleep so whatever makes it easier for you as the parent...go for it.

Totally get what youre saying OP. DS is 3 next month and I am still living in a permanent fuzz of exhaustion. We attempted sleep training but I just couldn't leave him. The instinct to respond is too strong so I go to him every time. DP says I've made a rod for my own back, he wanted to carry on with sleep training.

I do really think you just can't advise new parents though. What works for one child may not work for the next 5 you come across, although it is SO tempting to tell people not to make your 'mistakes'.

Hoping they start sleeping better soon

@hungryhippo8 there is nothing whatsoever instinctive about being so knackered you can barely function. That wasn't/isn't how the human race was designed to be.

But i might just be lucky with my dd being a good sleeper. I think some babies sleep, some dont

Scrub You're welcome. I'm a bit nutty. I'm a farmer and from what I've observed is that if the ewe is fine then the lambs are fine. You have to put yourself first because without you the babies can't do well.

I am trying to do something about it now, that’s what triggered my post! All i’m asking of the 2yo is to fall asleep in her cot without me laying in there with her, after a breastfeed, and she acts as if i’m selling her on eBay. Meanwhile the 5yo won’t even stay in his own room literally 2 metres away aocis up too late when he has school the next day waiting for his sister to give in. And he’ll wake and come in my bed at some point ‘because I want to be near you’ (yes I know that’s cute really).

I just feel like I only have myself to blame that they’re so awkward!! Ex always used to say it was bf and co sleeping that made things so hard (though as others have said, I felt that I did that in response to how they were acting) and i’m starting to wonder if he was right. I just feel a bit broken! Am going to keep going though.

As arethereanyleft said, ‘controlled crying’ at 6 months takes 2-3 nights. As long as they are fed, clean and warm and know that you will come if they really need you (night terrors or illness, you soon learn the difference) they settle down and give everyone the rest they need. However, I know that I will be flamed for this. Still BF for 12 months, though.

YABU

Co-sleeping etc works for some children. Sleep training works for others. What you’ve completely missed (as well as all the parenting ‘experts’ that wrote all the books and set all the trends) is that there’s no one size fits all when it comes to human beings.

I’m sorry you’ve had a crap time. It’s tough but YADBU to assume that the approach you took and found didn’t work for you, doesn’t work for others.

You also don’t have to be a purist. You don’t have to follow one way or the other way. You can pick and choose until you find what works for you. The best way to get through is by doing whatever you’ve got to do to get through.

It dont think you did anything wrong op. X

You need to have a screaming rage at your ex and tell him they go to HIM or they go INTO CARE.

How fucking dare he shirk his own children

The human race is also mammalian; biologically we're not designed to sleep on our own, how many people do you know who say they can't sleep if their partner isn't beside them?

What works for one won't work for another so in that YABU but YANBU to want to change your own situation and for that I hope you sort it out soon

FWIW: I'm 37 and a fucking awful sleeper, insomniac, bad dreams, don't settle and I injure myself in my sleep and wake up exhausted. Wanna sleep train me anyone :/

Ex always used to say it was bf and co sleeping that made things so hard Fuck him.

Also where do people find these men who don’t mind you co sleeping and who help at night?!! Seriously.

Totally agree with you re the sleep training but I never give advice to anyone unless they ask for it! I prioritised sleep routines and training above almost everything because I knew not only that I struggle myself without good sleep, but also that sleep is so important to brain development in children.

My DCs are now 7 and 4 and both sleep from 7-7 in their own beds without fail. DS1 has spent one whole night in bed with me when we both had a sickness bug and DD has never slept with us since we stopped co-sleeping with her at 8 wks.

I followed Gina Ford's routines [dons tin hat] and found that they worked brilliantly for us, but each to their own.

I'd say don't assume you will need sleep training but if lack of sleep is driving you nuts, kids will be OK to be left to cry it out a bit if that's what's needed. That will be better than strung out parent/s. I totally would have sleep trained had I needed to, as I was terrified at the thought of frequent waking - I take a long time to get to sleep and cannot settle if I know I'm going to be disturbed within a couple of hours. Fortunately mine were pretty merciful sleepers.

I've known a few people who've done sleep training and it worked quite quickly, didn't have to be done for more than a couple of nights and the kids have turned out fine and not stressed or traumatised. Basically I am a proponent of parents' needs are important and if doing what you think you 'ought' to will destroy you, then don't do it.

OP, I really hope things get better for you.

Any decent man would do those things. Mine also stayed home for 9 months with our youngest.

NotUmbongo that sounds amazing, he’s a keeper. Sometimes there’s no way of knowing how things will be before you take the leap to have dc!

And your ex-H sounds like a knob. Surely the majority of dads support breast feeding and help in the night don't they?

Is the baby hungry? Feed. Otherwise leave well alone.

My lovely aunt, mother of 4, grandmother of 5 and foster mother of hundreds, put it quite simply. Children are people, like adults. Some sleep well, some don't. I'm not a sleeper, never have been. My brother and my mother were great sleepers.
My DS has co slept since a day old. He never slept as a baby or toddler but got to 2.5-3 and started sleeping 12 hours and like a log. Never had a routine but he now rarely goes to sleep later than 8.30 and doesn't get up for anything.

I think it's purely a lottery of luck. I know people who sleep trained and had success, I also know ones who haven't. Again, they are either sleepers or they aren't and I don't think much will change their natural sleeping habits.

YANBU. I suspect the attachment parenting types, who are adamantly against sleep training etc. are doing it for the benefit of the child, not the benefit of the family. Fine, if it works for them, but it sure as shit isn't going to work for everyone.

YABU I'm afraid. I co-slept and didn't sleep train DD, and though she slept badly as a baby, from age 3 onwards she has slept 11-12 hours, every night, in her own bed. She's now 7.

However, if the current situation isn't working for you: then change it. All children are different.

There’s no right and wrong, but I had 3 under 3 and I had to return to work after 10 months with each in a stressful, responsible job.

I might have just been lucky but I did have a strict bedtime routine and left them to self settle with sleep training from 6 months-ish, even if that meant them crying for a bit.

With all 3, it took 3-4 nights before they got off to sleep by themselves without any help/crying.

We’re quite a few years on now, we are all very close, and there certainly hasn’t been any emotional scarring.

What works for one family won’t be right for another.

YANBU - but I could say exactly the opposite! DS is 9 and I never sleep trained him, let him self wean off the breast (about 4) and out of my bed (I did nudge this a little around 2). I don't regret this at all - it was right for us. He slept through when he was 2.5 years old. Needed me to sit in the room with him to fall asleep until he was about 4.5 - and I did find this pretty tough at the time but it ended and long term I don't feel that it had a particular effect on me.

No - I am not with his father any more, but that is everything to do with his father being an EA controlling nobhead and nothing to do with any parenting decisions. However, in hindsight, I do think some of these parenting choices I made were a coping mechanism in order to deal with doing everything on my own and/or possibly a backlash against what I felt were his very harsh and unfeeling ideas about parenting, and I don't know that I'd do things exactly the same this time around (am expecting DC2 in August - with nice supportive total softy man this time!) - but if it's what he needs then I will do it again. I don't find the sleep stuff to be particularly taxing myself - but there are other things which I do find impossibly hard and probably slack off on or take shortcuts in, which others are better at - we are all different.

I don't believe that sleep training is traumatising. I don't think it's completely harmless, either, but this is a short term harm (it certainly doesn't destroy brain cells!) and I believe parents do need to weigh this decision up for themselves. If the trade off is between a baby being upset, confused, possibly anxious/frightened for a few nights but it means that the parent(s) are able to give more to the baby during the day, then it might be worth it. It really depends how much the sleeplessness is affecting you. There are also various sleep training/behaviour change methods which don't include leaving the baby to cry - it's not like it's one or the other.

I really dislike the assertion that sleep training is necessary, that babies/children don't learn to sleep without it (that sleep is even something which can be learned, actually) or that there's something "wrong" if babies aren't sleeping X hours by Y age - because all babies and families and needs are different. Sleep training of a crying interval form might be exactly what one family needs whereas it will probably be wrong for another.

I do agree we need to get rid of stupid rhetoric which claims that any parenting style is "better" than another or promotes any feeling of smugness for doing anything one particular way.

Also where do people find these men who don’t mind you co sleeping and who help at night?!! Seriously.

My DH doesn’t mind because he’s not a prick. We make parenting decisions together, we decided this was the best way for our family. We’d change it if it wasn’t working but it is so we don’t fix what ain’t broke.

FWIW I don’t think you co-sleeping and all the rest of it is why your kids don’t sleep. Sleeps such a complex and sensitive issue for people of all ages.