To not know what to do about DD3 and surrogacy

[MyMagicStars]

My twins are identical, and 19- currently home and about to go back to uni. They've always been incredibly close and inseparable, but they now have blossomed since living apart and gaining independence separately.
However, this morning there's been a huge row while I was out between them, resulting in tears and shouting. When she was six, DT1 had to have her ovaries removed, meaning she can't conceive while DT2 can. When they were teenagers and we were explaining this, DT2 jumped at the chance of carrying for her twin, and obviously, we spoke about how it might change and she would have to really think.
With the talk of babies currently at home, DT1 has spoken to her sister again and is asking a lot of questions about when she would be comfortable, etc, and DT2 is getting more uncomfortable, and has snapped that she doesn't think it'll work. DT1 is more maternal, and has always wanted children while DT2 is less intense about it. DT1 is absolutely devastated. Obviously DT2 has full control of her body, and I think DT1 needs to see someone for help about her feelings, but she feels that she'll be laughed at for worrying about fertility so early on. I can completely see why DT2 has changed her mind, but am worried this is going to really damage their relationship. Has anyone dealt with this before? We have never ever mentioned DT2 or our other daughters with regard to surrogacy to DT1, and have mentioned possibilities- however, I think she feels that DT2 being identical to her means that the baby will be more "hers" this way. I'm upset to see DT1 this troubled, and have no idea what to do- or how to support each girl.
DT1 is currently packing for uni, DT2 has stormed off somewhere. Don't think they've ever had a fight like this before. We've always encouraged them to be unique- they have very different names, dress differently, separate hobbies, etc. They were at boarding school together in the same dorm for nine years before this, so absolutely joined at the hip (by choice, I was always getting outraged texts that teachers threatened to split them up if they didn't stop talking!) and I didn't know there was this much tension.

Well DT1 needs counselling and told to back off from her twin.

If she has a womb can she carry a baby, using donor eggs?

If only her ovaries were removed, would surrogacy be necessary? Would egg donation be a possibility?
I do understand the pressure- if you know you have fertility issues, it does prey on your mind and there is a feeling of having to try an option because it is there. But it sounds like both of them would benefit from some sort of counselling- even if egg donation is possible it isn't an easy process for the donor and being the one person who carries the weight of her twin's hopes for a family is a lot to cope with.

Could egg donation not be a possibility in future?

I also think counseling would help at this stage to work through the issues.

With surrogacy you’re supposed to get a carrier who has been through pregnancy before and finished having their own dc, otherwise it causes emotional issues and can be really hard on them? This idea of dtd2 carrying doesn’t sound right for that reason, and she does of course hsve the right to change her mind so best thing would be talk to dtd1 for her to accept that and look at other routes that she could take when the time is right

Would it be something you would consider doing?

With regards to counselling, DT2's uni only offer six sessions every six months, and she's just finished them for help with something else. Both are away from this weekend until June.
I'm going to try to speak to DH and see if we can find help for DT3- it's hard as DS2's baby is due any day now, and she's always loved babies. With counselling, she's worried she'll be laughed at for worrying about fertility so young and thinking about babies.
Both girls have boyfriends, DT2's is more serious. Thanks for all of your kind responses, I need them!

There is no way DT2 should be held to what she said as a teenager!

DT1 is (very understandably) being completely unreasonable. She really needs to go and have some counseling about this, it seems that it is only really beginning to hit her what the loss of her ovaries means.

You’ve got to feel sorry for DT2, DT1 needs to understand that asking your sister to carry your child is a massive thing and she also needs to understand that her sister has no obligation to lend her womb to anyone.

DT1 needs to look and see what other options if any are available and maybe talking to someone would help as well tbh

I would suggest your DT1 has some counselling, in this case I think that fertility counseling would be useful so that she realises that she has far more options than just surrogacy. I think that you also need to have a talk with her about how damaging pregnancy is to the body etc. in the hopes she realises how unfair it is to expect DT2 to act as a surrogate. Keep in mind that DT2 may change her mind in due course. I never would have even considered surrogacy/egg donation before having children. But now that I am done reproduction wise I have offered being a surrogate to a family member. The damage is already done to my body and at this point it doesn't matter of I damage my fertility. But she also may not. She might have her own child and never get able to face being pregnant again. It us very much that they are so close but it isn't fair to expect something like this.

April, I'm in my fifties and have birthed 7/8 of my kids, otherwise I would. DD1 and DD2 (I have 4 girls) can't- DD2 is in the military and has said that she plans one child at most, and wouldn't take the time off and DD1 would her own children first, and doesn't want any for a long time. I respect all of their wishes and support them fully.

Unfortunately you know Dt1 sadly can't expect her sister to carry a child for her.

However; why aren't they considering egg donation as an idea? From what you've posted, dt1 should still have a womb to carry her own child.

Either way, dt1 needs a lot more help and support to come to terms with her fertility issues and dt2 needs support to be her own person before either of them go down the road of making such huge, life changing decisions.

As a parent I would be suggesting both park this talk until they have finished their studies, giving them both time and breathing space.

No advice, but it must be terribly sad for you and your girls.

What about the egg donation? Can she not carry a child?

Wow. It's seems like you've all gone along with this great idea of one twin being a surrogate for the other - they're not much more than kids right now. This is something for your dt1 to explore AS AN ADULT. When she's ready. And not assume her sisters role is to enable that. Why on earth didn't you discourage any talk of surrogacy?

My DSis had her ovaries removed and looked at family donors and was actually told by the professionals that they generally discourage that as they find it can create complex boundary issues within a family and confuse the child, so we didn't go for it.

Maybe put it that way to your DD - in the long run this is likely to be for the best. Thinking about it now, I am very glad that my relationship with my nieces is purely aunt/niece without any complications.

Correct me if I'm understanding this wrong but she doesnt seem to be asking dt2 to be a surrogate, she's asking for one of her babies.
If so that's different and completely unreasonable.
I think it's unreasonable to row with dt2 over this anyway. It's very sad that dt1 cannot have her own babies, but that doesn't mean she gets rights over her twin's body, even if they share the same DNA.

It is absolutely up to DT2 what she does with her body, but would her donating an egg be a compromise if she’s amenable to it? Then DT1 could potentially carry the baby?

I think you should have downplayed any chat of possible Suragacy/pregnancy in your young teenage daughters at the time, knowing that the future often doesn't play out as we imagine it will as children.

I would definitely look into funding some coincilling for your daughters medical issues, now seems an appropriate time for her to grasp how her future will play out.

You simply can't frame this as the other daughter "changing her mind". She's only 19, she can hardly be expected to have made a choice so life-changing and significant as a child. It's ludicrous. You should stop even thinking about it in that way.

I think everyone concerned needs professional help, in particular the infertile daughter. You should prioritise your efforts to get her whatever form of counselling you can - if the university system is no longer accessible to her, then through the GP or privately. She needs help, please get it for her.

OP have I misread, you put DD3 in your OP title - is there a DD3 who is involved?

I don't get why this is even up for discussion, they are only 19?! I assume neither are planning on TTC yet?

I'm assuming egg donation isn't possible as with both ovaries removed she doesn't produce the natural hormones to support/regulate a pregnancy?

I can totally see both sides here, With their extra special bond and identical genes, the baby would be as close to biologically hers as you can get, and if the baby took after the mum looks wise, would clearly look like her. She's also very adamant about wanting children, and plenty of women want to start their families fairly young. Since she can't do this herself she's very hyper vigilant of time, and feels so out of control about it all she wants/needs answers to soothe herself.

On DT2's end, she is now older and realising just what a big thing having a baby actually is, especially one that is biologically hers but that she wont be raising, but could look just like her and be so close by. Theres also the realisation of what it would stop her doing in her own life, what long term effects it can have on her body and mind, and now she has a serious partner, his feelings on the situation count too. She's bound to feel so much pressure when she's being hounded about "when are you going to have my baby for me then?" and being expected to give a time frame, and no doubt she will feel so guilty if she now actually doesn't want to do this after all, as DT1 now expects her to do it and has pinned her hopes and dreams of being a mum on her.

I think you should try to reassure DT1 that she has nothing to fear from counselling - they won't laugh at her for her concern when she has a valid reason for worrying about fertility. It certainly sounds like counselling would help her overcome her intense anxiety about this. Could she speak to her GP?

I also think you need to have a kind but firm chat with her to let her know that what she is currently doing is emotionally abusing her sister. Them being twins doesn't put DT2 under any kind of obligation or expectation of something like surrogacy. It is a HUGE ask and not something many would be willing to do. She has every right to say no and to have that decision completely respected and DT1 needs to realise this.

DT1 is (understandably but nonetheless unacceptably) putting her own needs first and behaving as though her sister had a responsibility to fulfil them regardless of the cost to herself. There are lots of other options open to DT2 - she needs to realise this, and to start treating her sister with the respect and dignity she deserves.

Staples corner, I think DD3 is DT1, maybe wrong though.

DT1 needs to understand that she has no rights to other people's bodies and it's completely unacceptable to have expectations of such.

DT2 needs to do what's right for her. Her sisters health issues aren't her problem.