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Original poster

To not know what to do about DD3 and surrogacy

180 replies

MyMagicStars · 12/04/2018 12:47

My twins are identical, and 19- currently home and about to go back to uni. They've always been incredibly close and inseparable, but they now have blossomed since living apart and gaining independence separately.
However, this morning there's been a huge row while I was out between them, resulting in tears and shouting. When she was six, DT1 had to have her ovaries removed, meaning she can't conceive while DT2 can. When they were teenagers and we were explaining this, DT2 jumped at the chance of carrying for her twin, and obviously, we spoke about how it might change and she would have to really think.
With the talk of babies currently at home, DT1 has spoken to her sister again and is asking a lot of questions about when she would be comfortable, etc, and DT2 is getting more uncomfortable, and has snapped that she doesn't think it'll work. DT1 is more maternal, and has always wanted children while DT2 is less intense about it. DT1 is absolutely devastated. Obviously DT2 has full control of her body, and I think DT1 needs to see someone for help about her feelings, but she feels that she'll be laughed at for worrying about fertility so early on. I can completely see why DT2 has changed her mind, but am worried this is going to really damage their relationship. Has anyone dealt with this before? We have never ever mentioned DT2 or our other daughters with regard to surrogacy to DT1, and have mentioned possibilities- however, I think she feels that DT2 being identical to her means that the baby will be more "hers" this way. I'm upset to see DT1 this troubled, and have no idea what to do- or how to support each girl.
DT1 is currently packing for uni, DT2 has stormed off somewhere. Don't think they've ever had a fight like this before. We've always encouraged them to be unique- they have very different names, dress differently, separate hobbies, etc. They were at boarding school together in the same dorm for nine years before this, so absolutely joined at the hip (by choice, I was always getting outraged texts that teachers threatened to split them up if they didn't stop talking!) and I didn't know there was this much tension.

OP posts:
GreatDuckCookery6211 · 12/04/2018 20:01

Yes I agree Yarboo. Odd all round.

TheSpottedZebra · 12/04/2018 20:46

Are you in the USA, OP ?

rainbowduck · 12/04/2018 20:52

I think that you need to pay for some very good counseling for your Dd now, urgently. That is a lot to come to terms with.

Oldbutstillgotit · 12/04/2018 20:56

If your DD is only 19 why on earth is this even being discussed ??

jaimelannistersgoldenhand · 12/04/2018 21:10

The thing is OP- you're clearly very wealthy (kids in boarding school, large number of kids, private health insurance etc) You can afford to pay a stranger carry a child for DT1 which would be infinitely less complicated and traumatic than putting DT2 through it all. When you have easy pregnancies (I'm assuming that you did because you had lots of kids) then it's easy to forget that it's not like that for most women.

TheCriminalMind · 12/04/2018 21:28

I feel so sorry for DT2..

Surely a surrogate out of the family would be the best option?

helterskelter99 · 12/04/2018 21:30

It’s mumsnet so I would guess the majority of posters have no idea what infertility feels like. It’s shit to find out at 30 odd to go through your whole life knowing that must be awful because you have to acknowledge it as you know it when any relationship gets serious even if babies would / should / or maybe are not what you really want right now. She def needs some counselling as I can see how it would impact her ability to have relationships and impact how she lives her life

For her twin how awful to have the burden of being the “fertile” one but also possibly thinking hmmm if hers were fcked maybe mine are too! But it doesn’t probably impact her ability to look to a future where technically she can do whatever she wants

Hopefully they can move in and both find a way to deal with it

zzzzz · 12/04/2018 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

butterfly990 · 12/04/2018 21:43

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but thus reminded me of a documentary I saw years ago where identical twins were involved.

The one twin went through the menopause at 15 and was resigned to never having children. Her sister completed her family at 30 and then donated her ovaries to her sister and she then went on to become pregnant. It was only possible as they were identical twins.

www.theguardian.com/science/2008/nov/09/health

CoffeeOrSleep · 12/04/2018 21:44

OP - just to say as well, your DT2 needs you to step up and say to her that she doesn't need to justify saying no to anything that involves her body. That she's perfectly entitled to just say she doesn't want to do anything that involves her own body and DT1 and all other human beings on this planet have no fucking right over her body.

She needs to hear it and you need to believe it too. It doesn't matter one iota if she said yesterday she'd do this and today has changed her mind, 'no' means 'no' when it comes to your own body. Your 19 year old twins both need to understand body autonomy. DT1 acting like she has a right over another human's body because they once said 'yes' to something is really not ok.

DT1 needs counselling to come to terms with the fact she is not going to have a child of her own - I can see why eggs from her identical twin might feel more like the same as having a baby herself.

If she is unable to carry a baby and does not have any eggs of her own frozen, then all her options involve adopting another person's child, be it one that's been conceived and carried by a surrogate in a planned way for her, or one that's an unwanted accidental pregnancy. She needs to get used to that idea first.

And you all have to have a big think about why anyone thought that asking DT2 to just have a baby and hand it over to DT1 was anything other than seriously fucked up.

jacks11 · 12/04/2018 21:52

This is madness on so many levels.

I do feel for the young woman who can't have her own child, it must be very difficult to have the option taken away from you. However, what she is asking of her sister is absolutely massive.

This is not surrogacy or even egg donation. If her twin is to provide the egg and carry the baby, then what your daughter is asking of her twin is to give away her own baby to her sister. That is not surrogacy in any way, shape or form. There are so many ways this could be an utter disaster, possibly leading to significant emotional harm to all involved. I cannot see how anyone would even contemplate this is a good idea.

Not only that, but to expect her to do so before she has even had a child of her own is gob-smacking.

The fact that if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat is utterly irrelevant. And she can't know for sure if that is true. It does also sound a bit like, deep down, you feel DT2 should do this. I hope not, and it's just the way it's coming across. DT2 does not need counselling. She needs to have her views about her body totally respected.

I'm not even convinced it would be a good idea if DT2 were willing TBH. I am not at all sure that this would be advised by fertility teams. DT2 acting as a surrogate using donated egg and DT1's partner sperm, and once she had completed her own family is a completely different matter.

DT1 does need help to come to terms with her fertility problems- from someone who has experience in infertility. I do feel sorry for her, but what she's asking is totally out of order.

hammeringinmyhead · 12/04/2018 21:59

This isn't surrogacy. It's 1 asking 2 to have 1's partner or husband's baby (2's first one, if 1's that keen to be a mother in her early 20s), and give it up for adoption. What if she only ended up being able to have one and then you have one baby between 2 infertile sisters? Absolute and total madness. And no, you shouldn't be "supporting both" in this.

RosyPrimroseface · 12/04/2018 22:31

Telling her to "consider all her sisters"? No. It's not up to you to get involved with this stuff at all. If the women in question want to speak to one another in adult life and ask or offer to be involved in each other's fertility journeys, that is nothing to do with you.

You have completely overstepped your boundaries.

Your role as their mother is to massively dissuade ANYONE from getting pregnant at 19 (19!!) AND to get DT1 counselling for her fertility issues. Jeez, If my mum had had an opinion on the discussions about donation or surrogacy between me and my sister, we'd have been outraged. But then, we were brought up to feel autonomy over our bodies and nor weirdly pressured.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 12/04/2018 22:49

I had a friend whose older, married sister asked her to be a surrogate not long after we'd left university. There was quite a lot of pressure, which their parents added to by being 'neutral' instead of stamping on the whole idea, hard. It was deeply unfair and hurtful to my friend and wrecked her relationship with her sister. Friend eventually left the country to get away from it all.

emmyrose2000 · 13/04/2018 06:09

I just want to give dt2 a hug. You are clearly on your infertile child’s side and you’re being so unreasonable I’m struggling to comprehend
You should be supporting your children to be strong, autonomous and independent not entitled and emotionally abusive

This.

No matter what you tell yourself, or other people, it's screamingly obvious that you are prioritising the infertile daughter here. This has the potential to completely destroy your family, or at the very least, the relationship between the twins. None of your other daughters should be pressurised into being surrogates or egg donors either.

If surrogacy is the only way forward, then using a stranger and donated eggs/embryos seems the best option.

I too was on the infertility rollercoaster before having my kids, and it's absolutely shit, so I understand DT1's anguish. But it never even entered my head that my sister owed me a baby/egg/womb in any form.

Mummyoflittledragon · 13/04/2018 06:22

Shakey
Titchy
Greatduck
Kaytee
I’ve asked her to look at DT2 as she does with he other sisters in terms of donation.

Strangely worded I think but what op means is that DT1 isn’t considering her other sisters as potential egg donors and she should do the same with DT2.

ittakes2 · 13/04/2018 07:29

My friend found out when we were both 18 that she could not carry children and her and her fiancé at the time asked me to carry a baby for her. Being young and naive and put on the spot - I said yes - only later with more thought I realised I wanted to have my own children first. I suspect twin 1 is focussed on motherhood as she is very aware she can not have a biological child of her own. I hope she can have some counselling.

diddl · 13/04/2018 08:36

"Strangely worded I think but what op means is that DT1 isn’t considering her other sisters as potential egg donors and she should do the same with DT2."

Yes, but I can't help feeling that instead she'll also consider the other sisters!

pinkdelight · 13/04/2018 10:44

"Would you give one of your children to your sibling OP?"

A very good point here. After all, you have four DDs - yet I bet you can't countenance the thought of having given one of them away. That's what you're talking about here, not surrogacy in the sensible (yet still difficult) way it's normally administered. And that line about treating DT2 like the other sisters is deeply ambiguous, potentially suggesting that DT1 could consider them all possible surrogates. It really doesn't - and shouldn't - work like that. You need to leave the sisters out of it completely, except to reassure DT2 massively that it's all been a horrible mistake and she has no responsibilities or involvement whatsoever except to be herself.

saiya06 · 13/04/2018 11:26

Is there some reason they need babies now?

Are you desperate for grand children? Do you work?

It's just very weird that you are pushing this at 19. If they were even out of uni, it would seem more appropriate. Do they even have serious partners? Who is your DT1 supposed to be having this child with? A stranger? Some boy she's snogged at some uni party? Does he know he's being lined up for dad of the year?

HoppingPavlova · 13/04/2018 11:44

I agree with many others.

Your DD definitely needs counselling to come to terms with things however apart from assisting in this regard I’m not sure why you are trying to help otherwise in this regard. She’s 19yo. Still a child in a sense. It’s not ideal for 19yo’s yo have babies. So while she needs counselling now the practical side of moving ahead needs to wait 10 years.

swingofthings · 13/04/2018 12:30

This thread is very confusing. Where has OP said that dd1 was planning to get pregnant asap let alone that she wanted more than dd2s eggs who would genetically be the exact same one she would have had?

OP you say she has a womb but might not be able to carry a baby. When was this last discussed medically?

Your DD needs counselling from someone who has a good medical understanding of infertility as just as this thread shows most people don't understand the medical side of it. She needs to know what her options will be. Understandably if her twin sister agreed to donate her eggs the baby would genetically be hers the same ad if it had been hers so understand that she would prefer her sister to do so but it doesn't have to be her.

She also needs to understand thst her sister not vomiting to anything me doesn't mean she never will. Most egg donors decide to do so after they have themselves become a mum and want to share this joy with a woman who can't naturally have the same. Your other DD might indeed feel very differently after she has her own.

TheHatOfDoom · 13/04/2018 13:48

@titchy @emmageddon is it The Pact? I read that years ago, thought it was about teen suicide. Sing You Home is a JP novel about a divorcing couple fighting over frozen embryos so might it be that one?

ShinyShooney · 13/04/2018 13:56

Your DD is 19 and off to University.

Why is she discussing having children with her boyfriend?

GinUnicorn · 13/04/2018 14:25

It must be really hard for the infertile twin but no one should be making your dt2 feel bad for saying no. I suggest you and dt1 look at the cup of te consent analogy. It's about sexual consent but I think it translates well to body anatomy. Dt1 will have other options and needs to see a counsellor. Luckily this didn't happen as there was so much potential for emotional turmoil.