To not know what to do about DD3 and surrogacy

[MyMagicStars]

My twins are identical, and 19- currently home and about to go back to uni. They've always been incredibly close and inseparable, but they now have blossomed since living apart and gaining independence separately.
However, this morning there's been a huge row while I was out between them, resulting in tears and shouting. When she was six, DT1 had to have her ovaries removed, meaning she can't conceive while DT2 can. When they were teenagers and we were explaining this, DT2 jumped at the chance of carrying for her twin, and obviously, we spoke about how it might change and she would have to really think.
With the talk of babies currently at home, DT1 has spoken to her sister again and is asking a lot of questions about when she would be comfortable, etc, and DT2 is getting more uncomfortable, and has snapped that she doesn't think it'll work. DT1 is more maternal, and has always wanted children while DT2 is less intense about it. DT1 is absolutely devastated. Obviously DT2 has full control of her body, and I think DT1 needs to see someone for help about her feelings, but she feels that she'll be laughed at for worrying about fertility so early on. I can completely see why DT2 has changed her mind, but am worried this is going to really damage their relationship. Has anyone dealt with this before? We have never ever mentioned DT2 or our other daughters with regard to surrogacy to DT1, and have mentioned possibilities- however, I think she feels that DT2 being identical to her means that the baby will be more "hers" this way. I'm upset to see DT1 this troubled, and have no idea what to do- or how to support each girl.
DT1 is currently packing for uni, DT2 has stormed off somewhere. Don't think they've ever had a fight like this before. We've always encouraged them to be unique- they have very different names, dress differently, separate hobbies, etc. They were at boarding school together in the same dorm for nine years before this, so absolutely joined at the hip (by choice, I was always getting outraged texts that teachers threatened to split them up if they didn't stop talking!) and I didn't know there was this much tension.

I think the thing is, if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat.

They are 19!

Stop fanning the fucking fires! You sound baby mad yourself and like you're making the whole situation way worse.

You are so silly not to have shut down any talk of surrogacy when it was mooted when they were children .

the thing is, if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat.

That's completely irrelevant and unhelpful. They are not the same person and allowed to feel differently. It's alarming much easier to agree with something in theory but the reality may feel very different and that's ok.

Egg donation is huge. I couldn't do it. I would always feel there was a piece of me missing and it would break me.

Shocking that you are "fully behind her" in asking her twin to give away her baby. You should be "fully behind" DT2 in making her own choices about what to do with her body! It's DT1 who needs counselling - not DT2, and I don't see why she should be pressured to attend counselling when this isn't her problem.

DT1 needs to put this aside until she's actually in a position to have a baby as nobody knows what the situation will be at that point. This is an extreme scenario but for example DT2 could have been hit by a bus and not even be alive to carry her sister's baby by that time. Or DT1 might be disabled by illness and unable to care for a baby. Or DT1's partner, the father of the baby, might say no to DT2 being a surrogate. So many factors, you can't possibly make a decision at this point.

Me too fluffy

I don’t understand why so much debate and discussion has been encouraged here. They are 19, babies not at all on the agenda for now. Why oh why was it not a discussion that started with ‘what will I do when I want to have children?’ And ended with ‘well there are loads of options such as A, B, C and D and when you’re ready to think about having children it’ll be a case of choosing the best option for you!’

So you have 4 DDs but have conspired to create a situation where only one of them is being unduly pressured to act as a surrogate. You need to back off. You shouldn't be offering DT1 your complete support when she is pressuring her DSIS. You shouldn't be trying to get them both to have counselling together or weekends away together. They both need space. They both need to make their own decisions. DT1 cannot unilaterally decide to access her twin's body. All DT1 can decide is to pursue a consultation with a fertility expert and make herself fully aware of the different options.
You need to respect DT2's boundaries on this.

I agree with NerrSnerr. Anyone that knows you will recognise you and will be reading your adult daughters private medical information. I think you should get this taken down.

the thing is, if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat.

That is emotional blackmail. Don't say that to anyone.

I have to agree with the others and question why you didn't shut down talk of surrogacy at the time.
Kids make deals and promises that are made in the right spirit. For example my kids have told me that they never want to move out and my kids agreed to marry each other's best friends so that they can become their best friend's sibling (in law) DT2 obviously meant well when she made the offer but it's not a decision that she could have made at the time.

The plan was not a very good one anyway.

-Surrogate mothers should have their own child before being a surrogate.
-It would be super hard to be both surrogate and auntie- imagine trying to maintain boundaries with the baby to get over the birth but having constant pressure to be a welcoming aunt to said baby (especially if she has PND).
-Pregnancy is physically hard too. It could damage the relationship between the sisters if DT2 has a birth injury or is in poor antenatal health (SPD etc)
-What happens if the surrogacy put too much pressure on DT2's relationship? Even if she manages to find a supportive partner, it would be stressful for DT2's partner.
-Most of all, you're assuming that DT2 won't have fertility problems.

• The right time to have a baby for DT1 might not match the right time to be pregnant for DT2. What happens then?

I think that DT1 needs specialist counselling and DT2 needs reassuring that she had every right to make a better informed decision.

If I was DT2 I would be running for the hills as everything you have said so far seems to support DT1 and just pays lip service to DT2 point of view.
looks to see that you have all just assumed that something DT2 said as a child is the way forward and no thought has ever been put into how DT2 as an adult woman would feel giving away her own child.

You reckon, Fluffy? I actually hope you’re right.

It’s making me sweat just imagining being DT2. 19 years old, probably trying to enjoy university and figure out what to do with her life. A much loved sister already making plans about babies and trying to lock in a promise she made as a child to go through pregnancy and childbirth for her (and probably sooner than she’d even plan to have her own children, by the sounds of it), and a mother who also quite clearly agrees that she should be pledging to give her sister her baby, even if she won’t say so outright.

Stop fanning the fucking fires! You sound baby mad yourself and like you're making the whole situation way worse.
This ^
DT1 is off to uni, what's she talking about babies for?

Why does DT2 need counselling? She has said no and everyone needs to respect that decision. In the future she may change her mind of her own volition.

However the fact you and DH think she needs counselling suggests you are trying to force her into doing this. The mention that DT1 would do it seems to suggest you think she should be. It is not the Handmaid's Tale - this is her life.

DT1 will have to look into other options open to her. It is she that needs the counselling not DT2!

When they were teenagers

They are still teenagers.

I would be telling DT1 that she does not need to be thinking about this until at least post uni and she needs to stop mentioning it completely to DT2. If she wants to research options, fine, but they need to be options that do not involve DT2.

What DT2 said when younger (in what sounds like a highly engineered conversation) is completely irrelevant. What DT1 says she would do for DT2 is also irrelevant (and also might not be what she'd actually do). It is DT2's body, eggs, womb.

Conceiving and carrying a child and then handing it over to someone else is not something you can ask of anyone, twin or not. If DT2 happens to volunteer when she's older then so be it (although I think there would be major emotional fallout down the line and it would be a bad idea) but the more anyone presses the less likely that is.

IMO egg donation from another source would be more appropriate.

I would only consider surrogacy for my sister if she could provide both the egg and sperm otherwise I would be handing other my biological child.

Your daughter can presumably still carry a baby?

I agree it sounds like you are fanning this - either because you're also baby mad or because you feel so sorry for DT1 that it's blinding you to DT2's rights and feelings. Be very careful or DT2 may detach herself entirely.

So twin2 would carry her own baby and give it to twin1, is that right?

It doesn't matter if DT1 would do it in a heartbeat. That would be her choice. But DT2 also has a choice and any pressure or emotional manipulation is totally wrong. DT1 isn't a better person than DT2 because she would willingly be a surrogate.

I would have thought that as the mother of them both you would have put a firm brake on the idea anyway. You are endorsing a situation where one of your daughters would have her own biological child and then give that child to her sister, and then watch it grow up in close proximity but without being its mother. Surely you can see that's just a recipe for confusion, resentment and misery? What if DT2 gave birth and then didn't want to give the baby to her sister? What if she disagreed with DT1's parenting - would she be able to shut down her feelings of maternal protection for the baby she made and carried? What if she miscarried - would she be pressured to try again for the sake of her sister having a baby? What if the baby had complex care needs and DT2 decides she doesn't want to parent it? These issues are always a possible concern with any surrogacy - think how much worse when it's one twin giving her baby to the other.

Any of these situations could occur and it would devastate your family. I think it is your responsibility as a mother to say that even if DT2 were willing it would be a terrible idea that you couldn't support.

DT1 needs counselling to be able to come to terms with having no ovaries/issues carrying a baby.

DT2 NEEDS TO BE LEFT ALONE!!! This is not her problem and she should be able to get on with her own life without feeling guilty!!!

Hope that fluffy is right.

I agree with the person who said that you are clearly more supportive of dd3 than dd4. If being a surrogate was so simple then it would happen more often but obviously it's a very difficult thing to do. Could you give away a baby who's genetically yours to a sibling?

At the time you should have said that you would pay for the best doctor to help and you hope that the science of assisted conception is more advanced by the time she wants a baby and leave it at that. If DT2 chimed in with surrogacy offers then you should have said that when DT1 is ready to have a baby, you'd have DT2 tested for suitability which would have at least meant that DT1 would realise that DT2 might not be able to be her surrogate

It is a hard thing for DT1 to cope with but would obviously be a massive thing to ask of her sister, I think it is something that can only happen if DT2 wants to do it, not be made to feel she ought to do it.

I do understand why having her identical twin as a surrogate would feel different and more like that baby is her as genetically it would be the same wouldn't it. Would egg donation be a possibility? I know that isn't easy in itself but probably easier physically and psychologically than carrying a baby for 9 months and then giving it away.

I feel for them both and even though DT1 is so young it is bound to be something she will think about, most 19 year old would just expect to be able to have a baby when they want one even if that isn't the reality.

For the sake of the girls' relationship, I think you should very strongly encourage DT1 to apologize to her sister. Yes, she has the right to be emotional and worried about the future in regards to having children, she was way out of bounds in the way she treated her sister. You must, 100%, back up DT2's right to make whatever choices are best for her and not to feel she is being emotionally blackmailed by her sister.

Why is this something that either of them are thinking about at aged 19? Why is there any urgency to even raise this as a topic?

It is very obvious, as others have been saying, that DT1 cannot be allowed to put any pressure on DT2 either now or in the future. Surrogacy is something that should be altruistically offered, not something that should be asked for under pressure or demanded.