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Original poster

To not know what to do about DD3 and surrogacy

180 replies

MyMagicStars · 12/04/2018 12:47

My twins are identical, and 19- currently home and about to go back to uni. They've always been incredibly close and inseparable, but they now have blossomed since living apart and gaining independence separately.
However, this morning there's been a huge row while I was out between them, resulting in tears and shouting. When she was six, DT1 had to have her ovaries removed, meaning she can't conceive while DT2 can. When they were teenagers and we were explaining this, DT2 jumped at the chance of carrying for her twin, and obviously, we spoke about how it might change and she would have to really think.
With the talk of babies currently at home, DT1 has spoken to her sister again and is asking a lot of questions about when she would be comfortable, etc, and DT2 is getting more uncomfortable, and has snapped that she doesn't think it'll work. DT1 is more maternal, and has always wanted children while DT2 is less intense about it. DT1 is absolutely devastated. Obviously DT2 has full control of her body, and I think DT1 needs to see someone for help about her feelings, but she feels that she'll be laughed at for worrying about fertility so early on. I can completely see why DT2 has changed her mind, but am worried this is going to really damage their relationship. Has anyone dealt with this before? We have never ever mentioned DT2 or our other daughters with regard to surrogacy to DT1, and have mentioned possibilities- however, I think she feels that DT2 being identical to her means that the baby will be more "hers" this way. I'm upset to see DT1 this troubled, and have no idea what to do- or how to support each girl.
DT1 is currently packing for uni, DT2 has stormed off somewhere. Don't think they've ever had a fight like this before. We've always encouraged them to be unique- they have very different names, dress differently, separate hobbies, etc. They were at boarding school together in the same dorm for nine years before this, so absolutely joined at the hip (by choice, I was always getting outraged texts that teachers threatened to split them up if they didn't stop talking!) and I didn't know there was this much tension.

OP posts:
TellOutMySoul · 12/04/2018 13:29

If the first girl can't produce eggs, then she is expecting her twin to provide the egg and gestate it? So in plain speak she is asking her sister to give her her baby? Or is she asking for an egg donation? That's not surrogacy.

Anyway, it's all a bit absurd at their ages. Surely this is a conversation for 5-10 years down the track?

Things change.

AlmostAJillSandwich · 12/04/2018 13:30

Staples from further updates, DT1 is her 3rd born daughter, so her DD3, with DT2 being DD4.
DD3/DT1 are the same person, i believe.

Americantan · 12/04/2018 13:31

I think you should have downplayed any chat of possible Suragacy/pregnancy in your young teenage daughters at the time, knowing that the future often doesn't play out as we imagine it will as children

I’m with Fleece, I’m afraid this was an inappropriate discussion to advance with teenagers. Hope your daughter finds her solution.

TellOutMySoul · 12/04/2018 13:32

I also think you (and their father) should have stopped any talk about this when they were younger. It shouldn't have been encouraged as an option or even a conversation.

RosyPrimroseface · 12/04/2018 13:33

No fertility clinic would do insemination for one so young and who hadnt had their own kids, and you might end up not getting a parmental order. Worst case the relationship breaks down and neither twin gets a baby, the baby is put in care. There's a million things about surrogacy you haven't considered.

Darkstar4855 · 12/04/2018 13:34

I’m slightly confused as to why surrogacy is being considered - surely it would be better for DT1 to carry her own child with donor eggs (either from DT2 or an unrelated donor) used for conception? Or is this not medically possible?

If DT2 is both the genetic mother of the child and the “surrogate” then what she’ll basically be doing is giving her child to her twin sister. That’s a very complex situation for her to be in and I can completely understand her being reluctant.

If DT1 wants to preserve her relationship with her sister then she should drop all talk of surrogacy/reproduction and not put pressure on DT2.

Would it perhaps help DT1 to focus on other options and look into the possibility of anonymous egg donation? I don’t know whether she would be eligible for NHS treatment but there’s a lot of info/forums online and most private fertility clinics do open evenings. It might reassure her and make her less dependent on her twin if she knows more about what other options she has.

FindoGask · 12/04/2018 13:34

It doesn't sound like the OP 'advanced' the discussion when her twins were younger. It sounds like she was doing the opposite.

AnnieAnoniMouser · 12/04/2018 13:36

I feel for them both.

It must be really difficult at the moment with the new baby.

She is so young, but at 19 you don’t feel so young and these issues are so important and play on your mind. I was far more worried about these big issues at 19 than 29.

If it was me, I’d talk to DT2 and tell her that she’s under no obligation or pressure to do this for DT1. Her body, her choice and it might not be the best option anyway, even if she wanted to. She was a CHILD when she offered, it was very sweet, but without adult knowledge. Tell her she doesn’t need to worry about it. You will help DT1 get through this, just to kind to DT1, but firm in that as a family you will all help her, but that does not necessarily mean with eggs or surrogacy.

Dd1 I would say to her that you will help her have children as much as you possibly can, whether that’s emotional support or money (if you can afford to help her). However, DD2 is entitled to make the decision not to give her eggs or be a full surrogate, or anything else and unless she wants to ruin her relationship with her sister she needs to remember that DD2 is entitled to make decisions about her body just as she is. Yes it’s incredibly sad what happened, but DD2 didn’t ask for it nor cause it and she’s not the only solution.

I’d tell her that she needs to focus on Uni until the summer, but that in the summer you will help her to look at what options will be available to her in the future. Let her know you understand her worries, being told ‘not to worry, you’re only 19’ is not going to help (notbthat it sounds like you’d say that).

specialsubject · 12/04/2018 13:36

Twin 1 (sorry, I hate the nauseating MN acronyms) needs a job, a stable home and income and ideally a partner. Then she can think about the mechanics of producing a baby.

This is a ridiculous thing to throw a strop about at 19. If she wants kids she works towards it like anyone else with the boring bits sorted first.

her sister is perfectly entitled to refuse.

happy2bhomely · 12/04/2018 13:37

It is completely unreasonable that this idea has been allowed to rumble on so long.

I have 4 sisters. I would possibly have carried a baby for them if needed but no way would I have donated eggs. No way at all. I would have been very upset to even be asked and I would expect my mum to have no part in any of it.

If what DT1 is suggesting is that DT2 would carry her own genetic child and then give it to DT1 then that is beyond unreasonable.

Your dd obviously needs counselling to accept that this is not an option for her.

waterrat · 12/04/2018 13:38

I think given the hugely complex nature of what is involved it would have been better to have spoken against this the moment it was ever raised.

The most important thing to me here is your daughter needs expert counselling - this is not something to be dealt with by the university counsellor - she needs specialist help from someone with understanding of fertility issues. She is absolutely right to look at the options as early as possible - why should she wait? No counsellor or fertility expert would laugh at her.

This is just going to fester and make her unhappy - find the help for her immediately.

The argument between your girls now shows exactly why this should never have been considerd.

sorry though Op its a hard one for a mother to see - her two girls so divided.

waterrat · 12/04/2018 13:39

also - OP can you clarify what you mean by 'surrogate' - whose baby would this be? Is it actually the fertile sisters child? YOu can't ask someone to give you their own baby!

NerrSnerr · 12/04/2018 13:39

Four daughters, one in military, twins at boarding school now at uni, son about to give birth. If this is all true anyone who knows your family who read this can easily identify you (and your daughter’s private medical information).

CowesTwo · 12/04/2018 13:42

Others have already said what I wanted to say. It seems there is some muddled thinking in your house, over what constitutes 'surrogacy'. I won't repeat what everyone else has said. Do read their posts, OP.

jamoncrumpets · 12/04/2018 13:42

I feel bad for both DT1 and 2 who are both in this rat bastard situation now because of a lack of clarity and sensible discussion when they were younger.

diddl · 12/04/2018 13:42

Well as yet the other twin doesn't know that she could conceive & carry a baby does she?

Even if she did, it's not fair at all for the other to hold her to something that was said on the spur of the moment some years ago.

Also, surrogacy would be an option-just not with her twin.

mostdays · 12/04/2018 13:44

I don't think I understand why surrogacy would be necessary- from what I've read, it was DT1's ovaries which were removed, not her uterus, so wouldn't she start off by looking at the egg donation route?

That aside, whilst I sympathise with her situation, I do think DT1 is being utterly unreasonable and should get help with her thoughts and feelings around this.

UnicornRainbowFluffball · 12/04/2018 13:46

Isn't it DT1 that needs the counselling? Why does it matter that dt2 has used hers up?

Urubu · 12/04/2018 13:47

So DT1 is asking her sister to give her her baby?? That seems quite cruel for DT2.
Being twins doesn't give rights on eachother bodies or lives.

OP from your posts I get the impression that you think DT1 has a point and that you feel line DT2 should agree, but please correct me if I am wrong!

jamoncrumpets · 12/04/2018 13:47

My DSis is trying for a baby. She's older than me and struggling. I'm pregnant with my second and seem to conceive relatively easily. BUT I have shitty, shitty pregnancies filled with health issues. There's no way I would, or could, carry a child of MY OWN to give to her considering the nine months of hell that I have to get through to get there. And she knows it'd be mad to ask that of me.

saiya06 · 12/04/2018 13:48

this makes no sense. they are NINETEEN. They are statistically 10 years away from having their first child. If they went to boarding school, probably more.

AlmostAJillSandwich · 12/04/2018 13:49

I guess the fact she wants it to be DT2's egg is the biggest issue, as it will be genetically identical to as if the egg was her own. In some way, she could mentally justify it as the baby IS hers, not her sisters, as biologically, their DNA is the same. Presumably, if DT2's egg was used, regardless of whose womb the baby grows in, and a live baby is born, a DNA test done on the baby wouldn't be able to tell a difference if DT1 or DT2 was the biological mother.

FairiesVsPixies · 12/04/2018 13:51

When they were teenagers and we were explaining this, DT2 jumped at the chance of carrying for her twin
Why on earth did you put the idea in their heads at such a young age?
They are still young now, plenty of time and options to pursue at a later date. It's unfair to put so much pressure on DT2.

AlmostAJillSandwich · 12/04/2018 13:54

I was under the impression the ovaries are what produce our bodies natural reproductive hormones, so without her ovaries, DT1 won't produce estrogen or progesterone, so won't have a menstrual cycle. As such she doesn't grow a womb lining for an embryo to implant in to, and won't produce the hormones at their eve rchanging levels to support pregnancy.
Even if DT1 is on HRT to replace what homones she can't produce herself, it would probably be impossible for her to carry the baby, same way you an't get pregnant after the menopause.

DeputyBrennan · 12/04/2018 13:54

I think you need to ensure that DT2 understands that she absolutely doesn’t even need to be thinking about any of this at the age of only 19.

It’s understandable if it’s something affecting DT1 psychologically at this point in her life, but it’s not ok for DT2 to be feeling under any pressure about this whatsoever. Easier said than done, but DT1 must be encouraged to work through this on her own right now.