To not know what to do about DD3 and surrogacy

[MyMagicStars]

My twins are identical, and 19- currently home and about to go back to uni. They've always been incredibly close and inseparable, but they now have blossomed since living apart and gaining independence separately.
However, this morning there's been a huge row while I was out between them, resulting in tears and shouting. When she was six, DT1 had to have her ovaries removed, meaning she can't conceive while DT2 can. When they were teenagers and we were explaining this, DT2 jumped at the chance of carrying for her twin, and obviously, we spoke about how it might change and she would have to really think.
With the talk of babies currently at home, DT1 has spoken to her sister again and is asking a lot of questions about when she would be comfortable, etc, and DT2 is getting more uncomfortable, and has snapped that she doesn't think it'll work. DT1 is more maternal, and has always wanted children while DT2 is less intense about it. DT1 is absolutely devastated. Obviously DT2 has full control of her body, and I think DT1 needs to see someone for help about her feelings, but she feels that she'll be laughed at for worrying about fertility so early on. I can completely see why DT2 has changed her mind, but am worried this is going to really damage their relationship. Has anyone dealt with this before? We have never ever mentioned DT2 or our other daughters with regard to surrogacy to DT1, and have mentioned possibilities- however, I think she feels that DT2 being identical to her means that the baby will be more "hers" this way. I'm upset to see DT1 this troubled, and have no idea what to do- or how to support each girl.
DT1 is currently packing for uni, DT2 has stormed off somewhere. Don't think they've ever had a fight like this before. We've always encouraged them to be unique- they have very different names, dress differently, separate hobbies, etc. They were at boarding school together in the same dorm for nine years before this, so absolutely joined at the hip (by choice, I was always getting outraged texts that teachers threatened to split them up if they didn't stop talking!) and I didn't know there was this much tension.

You should have put a stop to this a long time ago to be honest - at the very least when the talk of babies started making her sister uncomfortable - has she ever had counselling to deal with something so huge

You dont seem to fully grasp the huge thing she is just expecting her sister to do and the fact that at the moment the conversations are inappropriate

You should never have allowed your young daughter to agree to something like this.
If your dd still has an intact womb I don't see a reason she can't carry an ivf baby conceived with donated eggs.
Presumably it was expected that dt2 would carry a child conceived with her own egg then hand it over to dt1. This is completely unethical and doctors advise that woman don't consider surrogacy until they've had their own family anyway. They should have been told as young teens it wouldn't be possible then there would be no hurt feelings now.

The best thing you can do is to tell DT1 that her twin is not obliged to have her baby or be her surrogate or anything like that. Rather, encourage her to live her life and then when the time is right, she can only ask and be respectful of her sister's decision. Essentially she is arguing over a hypothetical scenario - unless she is planning baby imminently.

Equally DT2 should be encouraged to do what she feels comfortable doing, and that you will respect her decision fully.

I would also reiterate to both of them that perhaps this is best discussed when DT1 is actually planning to have a baby because then they can each assess their lives at that point to see whether it would work. E
G. If one twin moves to a different country or something, they may find a surrogate who is local would be more suited.

It's not an easy scenario so hope the girls make up soon x

She is so young to be thinking about this. Technology, laws and drugs change constantly so in ten years surrogacy may be completely different.

Maybe as you have had so many children(8!) you have made it look easy and DT1 doesn't quite realise what a big thing she is asking of her sister.

Get DT1 some counselling. It is hugely unfair of her to be demanding or even asking this of her sister.

Are your family religious OP? Just asking because of the number of children and unwillingness to use donor eggs/IVF.

kaytee87 is right - egg donation would be a much more sensible route to follow and she could carry her own baby then.

As someone who grew up with a lot of health issues that my brother escaped - please, concentrate on DT1 here. Unless she is particularly vulnerable in other ways, DT2 will find a way to cope with the unfair degree of pressure she's receiving to surrogate for DT1. But DT1 will have invariably live the rest of her life with the consequences of her infertility. She's the main one needing help in this.

OP you don’t have the terminology correct. Does your family understand what is medically necessary for your daughter to have a baby?

Counselling, yes, she should do it. But also get her an appointment with a fertility specialist to talk about her options. She’s not too young to access information.

Does she have a uterus? Did the doctors extract eggs? Is she otherwise healthy? Could she carry a donated embryo etc etc etc.

Information is empowering. And will show her she has a lot of choices, many of which don’t rely on her twin.

"I think you need to ensure that DT2 understands that she absolutely doesn’t even need to be thinking about any of this at the age of only 19."

Or ever!

NicolaNineLives - as someone who has been on the other side of this - be careful with that advice. I think you're maybe projecting a bit. Don't underestimate how hard that kind of pressure can be. And, if nothing else, not supporting the healthier child can lead to them acting out in ways that will hurt the less healthy one too - the last thing the OP wants is one of her DTs going NC, or, worse, making a bad decision about surrogacy that goes wrong later on.

Totally agree NicolaNineLives

I've finally managed to calm DT1 down, and spoken to her about the situation, and putting pressure on her twin. Very tearful. I've told her we're fully behind her, but she does need to be reasonable- I think the thing is, if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat.
We didn't downplay the idea at first, as until she was choosing A-Levels, DT1 was always talking about travelling, and considering adoption, etc, so we thought it was more a comment for the sake of it.
DH is more than willing to help with counselling, and has suggested that we try to get the girls home for a weekend by themselves or go away during the term.
In terms of the biology, DT1 has a womb, but it may be very difficult for her to carry long term due to her medical conditions.

Also, the Daily Mail are cunts.

I can actually address this through my own experiences. I'm infertile, when DH and I went through our single IVF cycle we discovered that I had no eggs. My DSis spontaneously offered to donate one of her eggs, which I was so touched by, but after a few weeks of agonising about it, I asked her directly whether she was really comfortable with the idea. She said, 'I'll do it if you want me to.' But I then said no, as she clearly hadn't really thought through the issues involved and hadn't appreciated that she would have to go through a cycle of IVF herself. We've now adopted our DDs, and DSis and her DH have their family, so it's worked out for both of us.

It's easy to make grand offers on the spur of the moment, but they really need to be thought through very carefully.

nicolaninelives just because she is not suffering health issues it does not mean that DT2 should be left to deal with the unfair pressure of being a surrogate - that could also have huge implications as well for her future

They both need help, firstly with both understanding that its unfair for DT2 to be asked this and accept this and then focus on getting DT1 the counselling and information she needs

I disagree, Nicola. Of course DT1 needs more attention in the form of help to access counselling from professionals, but it’s simply not ok for her to be inappropriately pressuring her sister in any way. If DT1 can’t stop herself and back off, then OP ought to step in, whilst ensuring that the ball is rolling in getting her the professional help she needs.

DT1 definitely needs counselling both to deal with the emotional side and on the fertility side to understand her options - none of which involve her twin for all the good sensible reasons listed by PPs. Whether or not DT1 really would do it for her sister "in a heartbeat" if the roles were reversed, it still wouldn't be a good idea. Today's row would be nothing up to the minefield of boundary issues involved.

I can understand both sides. DT1 wants a baby using her identical twin’s eggs as it would essentially be her- partially her DNA, chance it will look like her etc. This makes total sense. However it would also be asking DT2 to essentially give away her child. The child will grow up with an aunt who is biologically her Mother. It’s too complicated and easier if she uses other donor eggs (or another surrogate). I can understand why she’d want her twin sisters eggs and really feel for her but it’s just too complex and has so much potential for being an absolute disaster.

Regardless, this will not be an issue for at least another five years surely, possibly even 10-15.

Before you tell your daughter you are fully behind her putting pressure on her twin to give up her own baby maybe take a look at what might be involved in the infertility/ surrogacy process.

The only one who seems to grasp the magnitude of what this scenario entails is Twin 2. The lot of you need to start talking to a few professionals in the field.

The first thing you learn with infertility is that it's shit. The second thing you learn is that another person's fertility is irrelevant. My sister can get pregnant at the drop of a hat, but neither of us ever considered she may owe me a baby. Nobody owes your daughter a baby because her body won't make one itself. And you are very irresponsible for backing her on that issue.

Fingers crossed DT1 is able to access counselling and can come to some place of peace for the time being, and that the two of them can focus on finishing their education and establishing their lives for a few years before this needs discussing again.

@NicolaNineLives that is really terrible advice.

I think the best thing that can come from this is the complete "putting to bed" of the surrogacy idea once and for all. I mean I would take this opportunity to have both girls take it off the table completely for now and find a way to move forward without it.

Who knows what the future will bring, but I think it's too heavy a burden for both girls to have hanging over them for the time being, and will hinder them each in making decisions in their own personal lives with a clear head.

I've told her we're fully behind her, but she does need to be reasonable- I think the thing is, if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat.

What do you mean you're fully behind her? Supporting her to deal with her infertility or supporting her plans of using her sisters egg (and womb?).

Secondly why is it relevant what her sister would do? They're separate people as you are at pains to point out.

Maybe you don't quite see them as separate?

" I think the thing is, if it was the other way round, DT1 would do it in a heartbeat. "

There's no way to know that & even if it were so, it does not make her twin a bad person at all for not wanting to do it.

I hope that you are managing to convince her that she really doesn't even have to consider it.

The fact that they are identical twins adds a whole extra level if complexity. My identical girls find it quite strange to think that their nieces/nephews will be genetically as closely related to them as their own children. It places an additional burden on your DT2. Of course she is not obliged. They both need to live their lives and have time to mature a lot more before contemplating motherhood. It's a very hard situation for both of them.