WWYD? Dogs and fearful child

[teaandtwigs]

My DS (5) is incredibly fearful of dogs. He was rushed at by big dogs as a toddler and has struggled since. If they are on a lead, he comes round to the opposite side of me to get past them, that's fine. Our issue is with unleashed dogs that we meet out on walks (we have footpaths near our house/often walk round woods locally/at NT properties). They will very often be running/having a grand old time (as they are obviously allowed to do!) but he will literally climb up me to get away from them/become loudly distressed if they approach/jump round our feet, which makes them all the more excited and jump more.

Unfortunately at this point, the owners always seem to be miles back, the dogs won't recall or the owners will shout, 'don't worry, they are friendly' and make no attempt to get the dog/s away. I can see they are friendly but that doesn't stop my DS from trying to sit on my head!

I'm just not sure what to do at this point - when I asked one lady to please take a hold of her dog she told me that her dog had every right to be there, and we'd have to stay home if ds was going to 'act like that'.

I know we have to work on helping ds through his fear but it's baby steps and it feels like we take a step back every time we go out!

Any advice - on how to deal with loose dogs and conquering his fear - would be appreciated!

I hate owners who do the “it’s ok he is friendly” shit. I don’t care how friendly it is you don’t let your dog approach anyone else unless you know them and know they are happy to be approached.

Ds is autistic and petrified of dogs. We have managed to teach him to stand still and do “x factor arms” when a dog comes close because screaming and jumping around may make the dog think they want to play so if you can get him to stay still and quiet the dog will hopefully just pass.

Sadly while their are still selfish dog owners if makes tackling the fear so much harder as you end up one step forward two steps back

Can you get lots of books and films about dogs so he understands a bit more about them?

Shit attitude from owners. Practical help though might be to find someone with a gentle dog and introduce him gradually so he can see that they aren't all scary.

Something like a little cavi spaniel or that kind of size and temperament. Alternatively, a very old dog that isn't going to bounce around him.

It may be worth giving petsastherapy.org a ring, they may be able to help or suggest an organization that could.

I hate this too.

Dd1 (13, severe ASD) has a dog phobia (and I don’t use that word lightly),

She can just about cope if they are on leads, although that is a close run thing too, but loose dogs are impossible.

I don’t understand why dog owners aren’t more responsible. When we had a dog (when dd1 was small - eventually had to redone after her phobia grew out of control), I never let her run at other people, and she was never out of range fo recall, etc. When walking in a park, I would get her to sit (even at a distance) if people were passing her, and she never pestered passers by.

Last week we had to cope with a dog coming into the playground. Dd1knkws the rules, and so can just about cope with the dogs outside the fence, as she knows she is safe inside the fence. Except some idiot let their dog inside, which meant we had to leave, and I have no idea if dd1will go back to that park now.

I tend to call loudly, call your dog away, it’s being a nuisance (don’t mention scared, as then you get the ‘oh, it’s friendly’ crap. I’ve even been told that I’m doing dd1 no favours ‘letting’ her be so scared of dogs ). It’s being a nuisance as it is giving unwanted attention.

I bloody hate this too.

My friend, who’s a legal bod, just stands still and says very loudly, authoritatively and repeatedly “please keep your dog under control”. Owners have no answer to that, even the really thick “he’s just being friendly” ones.

Wishing you both all the best for your little ones, may they get less fearful with time.

We found getting cats helped. Obviously you could get a dog, but then you are likely to encounter even more dogs. I think it was something about understanding a bit more about how animals move and react, however cats are smaller than many dogs, not quite as in your face and tend to ignore you more of the time. Maybe seeking out some cat friends first before moving on to placid, friendly dogs. Owners really should be more aware that not everyone will be won over by their dog and train them better to come to them rather than approaching strangers.

Sounds exactly like my daughter when she was a child. Literally would climb up me. She grew out of it and is now 18. When she was 4 we got our own small dog and she was OK with him and gradually got over the phobia. She now loves dogs of any size.

My DS2 is 5 and is exactly the same. No idea why, he has had a couple of close encounters and has just developed a severe fear. He does exactly the same cowering when they are on leads, and climbing up me when they aren’t. It’s got to the stage where he is scared to go out anywhere, as soon as we mention a walk somewhere he starts worrying about the dogs. And his reactions are now making DD (2) be scared as well. It’s definit not easy to hold a 2-yr-old and a petrified 5-yr-old when they are both trying to get off the ground. I am hoping that just reacting calmly myself and praising him when he acts sensibly will enable him to grow out of it a bit. I’d like to try some immersion therapy if I knew someone with a gentle dog, although not sure I could persuade him to go into their house!

Find a friendly dog trainer? My dd was a bit like this, then got a bit better and we then got a dog.

They had a couple of 1:1 lessons with a dog trainer. I'm not excusing other dog owners, I think it's terrible. We have a couple here who walk off lead everywhere, including on pavement s and they bother my dog.
The dog trainer would help with confidence and knowing a few commands might help. They would use their own dog who would be well trained. Might be a stupid idea but unfortunately I don't think you'll change the dog owners.

I have a child like your DS and it was caused by a very similar circumstance - useless owners when he was a toddler.

My child is older now, and has got a lot better as she has got older. She still hates dogs running around off the lead, but doesn't now freak out having to pass one on the street. We looked into the pets as therapy dogs but in our area the group will only work with children after a referral through the NHS, and with budgets being so restricted, they refused to see us.

I took advice from a friend who is a clinical psychologist and she advocates the gradual exposure method. We spent a lot of time in a local beauty spot sitting on a bench as dogs passed by to give her the idea that really there are a lot more interesting things from a dog's perspective than a child on a bench. That really helped, looking a what dogs do and seeing that when they're running, it's usually because they're chasing a ball or following a smell.

The next stage was gradual exposure to a real dog and this is where we struggled - you really need a bomb proof dog which is not going to jump, growl, bark, or do anything unpredictable. Just a big lump which wants to lie there. At least to start with. Many people who say their dogs are great with children have boisterous dogs who want to play, or wee yappy things. Something like a retired guide dog would be perfect but we don't know any of those...

But totally agree that some owners don't help. Many are totally unsympathetic to the fact your child is practically wetting themselves in fear over their pet. They think everyone should love their dog as much as they do and are quite happy to let it run free, wherever they want to be.

Could you talk to a local dog trainer who might be able to put you in touch with some owners of puppies, and build up from there, get your son along to a puppy class when he is ready etc. Good for the puppies too as they need to be socialised to children.

My friends son (who was no where near as terrified as yours) was a bit concerned about my puppy jumping up... Until he realised the puppy couldn't even reach his knees when he was on his back legs. Now puppy is fully grown my friend boy let's him jump all over him.

DM, DF, DB and myself (when I was about 3 or 4) were chased by 3 or 4 gsd guard dogs that had got free, which by some miracle got distracted by a passing rabbit before they made it to us. Parents then got a puppy when I was 7 and I have had dogs in my life ever since, but I still have a deep mistrust of gsd. Could you somehow try and direct his fears specifically (to big dogs, or whatever breed rushed him when he was younger) but teach him to trust generic dogs?

My 4 year old twins are the same! It’s awful, they are terrified. When they were 1 and a half a dog chased us, and got in the pram, while the owner yelled aat me and threatened me because I was trying to get my babies away from his dog. (I suspect he was on drugs) Before that, they loved dogs. And they both try and climb up me when a dog gets close!

I always talk to them when I see a dog, so they aren’t suprised. I try and make my comments calm like “That looks like a nice Labrador”. I find they are calmer that way. What I hate though, is dogs off the lead in the playground. My girls go into a blind panic from it. And dogs are not meant to be off lead there. It takes any progress we heave made 10 steps back.

My son (12,but asd and sld) doesn't mind dogs that are under control but even he gets distressed by those that are allowed to jump around his feet or other not under control behaviour.
These days I make it clear to the owner that their dog is being a nuisance. We also get them saying he is only being friendly which is pointless to a person who wouldn't understand those words - which I now also tell them.
As others have suggested you could find a gentle dog to try to help him get used to them.

Dog owner here, a responsible one I hope! Our girl is 18 months old and still very much has a puppy brain despite weighing 30kg so as much as she is under control on the lead, if someone starts shouting and waving their arms near her she will likely think it's play time and if she jumps there is only so much i can do. Responsibility cuts both ways and assuming dogs are allowed then people need to know what to do around dogs as much as dogs need to be trained. Ok, got that off my chest.

OP my best advice comes from Cesar, the dog whisperer, who says turn your back on any dog that is getting excited. Dog's don't think it's play time then, plus if they do jump it's less likely to hurt or be scary. So can you teach your LO to just turn around and stand still? Explain that's dog language for 'no thanks, I'm not playing today'. Exposure to gentle friendly dogs is obviously a good idea too but my advice is for those rogue dogs out and about.

So many kids seem to be scared of dogs these days, Christ knows why. Yes, the owners are wrong to let their dogs run up to small children, but I really think parents would be much better off helping their kids get over the fear they have than thinking all dogs should act like robots - it's just not realistic.

We share this world with other animals, we can't expect everything to revolve around humans.

Elsie do you not manage to keep her from bothering other people if she's on a lead? Surely you've got good control of her when you're out either via a harness and lead or excellent foolproof recall?

I just can't fathom taking a dog out if you don't have control of it.

Dogs don't have to act like robots but they do need to be kept under control. Most dog owners manage this so I don't see why the rest can't.

Angels - the problem is when a small minority of dog owners allow their dogs to jump up and knock children over, or snap at them, or stick their heads in prams then of course that will create a fear in a lot of children. It’s pretty hard for parents to change that really. Dog owners need to take responsibility for their dogs (as most do)

Every time I manage to get ds to a point of being more comfy around dogs we will have another incident of a bad owner and his confidence gets knocked again

I think gentle desensitisation is the answer. Find someone with a very calm dog, possibly a small one, if size is an issue, and introduce them gently in a controlled environment. You could even start with the dog in a pen initially. Then the level of contact can be gradually increased, and other dogs introduced.

If you're in Sussex, pm me. I have a small dog who is totally disinterested in children, to the point where she ignores them. The therapy dog is a great suggestion, but any other sort of assistance dog will have been trained not to be reactive.

I'm bird phobic (to the point where I have actually fainted when startled by a bird) and I improved massively when I became friendly with someone who had 3 parrots. That was how it worked for me - gentle exposure.

We have also had the comment that ds2 should not go to the park if he is terrified of dogs. On the most part though I have been so impressed by the courtesy of dog owners towards him. A difference is that he is older and freezes rather than makes a fuss but must be obvious he is terrified as most owners immediately call the dog or put them on a lead. So public thank you to all the kind dog owners who do this for him. He says the fear is because they are so unpredictable. We have managed to build up his tolerance but he still struggles if the path is narrow and he has to go past one.

Your DS isn’t the problem, the dog owners are. I hate the “don’t worry it’s friendly” brigade - why do they think that makes it ok not to recall their dog when there is a clearly terrified child?
With my DS we’ve found time the main help - now he’s physically bigger he’s less scared - as well as having a responsible dog owner next door who’s taken the time to introduce DS to a dog slowly.

Sorry, also meant to say that I have some reservations about Eryi's suggestion.

Puppy classes can be very chaotic (the first one I went to had a totally out of control fully-grown Newfoundland that used to drag it's owner round the room) and noisy, and puppies that haven't learned bite inhibition WILL nip, and that will make things worse. And puppies are very lively, my instincts are that a fearful child needs to be introduced to a very calm dog initially.

My 2 DGC were scared of dogs thanks to an encounter with a stupid owner, who let their growling out of control dog run up to them .
They had been used to my 2 soft as shite lumps, but were even scared of them after that. I put them away when they visited for a while, and slowly introduced them, got the dogs to lie down whilst the kids were in the room. Took a while, but they go out walks with us now and throw balls and frisbees for them.
They are still nervous over other dogs, but not as bad as they were.

elsiemay totally agree. I have this problem too, mostly with (some) runners (and before I had a dog I used to run, before I get shouted down), they bounce about, flap their arms around and won't ever alter their speed no matter what (might loose time on their Strava circuit!!), And thus make themselves THE most exciting thing a dog will have seen that day, and then wonder why your can't control and recall your dog. When I ran I never had problems with dogs, I would always be prepared to slow down to a walk if necessary so that I didn't alarm the dog or hype it up, and so I could turn my back on it (as suggested by pp) if needed. The reality is if a dog is going to attack, you're probably already screwed, most dogs just want to play, or have been caught off guard and are communicating this. I can't believe runners don't educte themselves on this, (whether they should have to our not is a whole other debate), it's self preservation!!

Sounds like OP is trying to find a way to teach her son how to function in a world with dogs, which is great. Good luck, you'll get there