WWYD? Dogs and fearful child

[teaandtwigs]

My DS (5) is incredibly fearful of dogs. He was rushed at by big dogs as a toddler and has struggled since. If they are on a lead, he comes round to the opposite side of me to get past them, that's fine. Our issue is with unleashed dogs that we meet out on walks (we have footpaths near our house/often walk round woods locally/at NT properties). They will very often be running/having a grand old time (as they are obviously allowed to do!) but he will literally climb up me to get away from them/become loudly distressed if they approach/jump round our feet, which makes them all the more excited and jump more.

Unfortunately at this point, the owners always seem to be miles back, the dogs won't recall or the owners will shout, 'don't worry, they are friendly' and make no attempt to get the dog/s away. I can see they are friendly but that doesn't stop my DS from trying to sit on my head!

I'm just not sure what to do at this point - when I asked one lady to please take a hold of her dog she told me that her dog had every right to be there, and we'd have to stay home if ds was going to 'act like that'.

I know we have to work on helping ds through his fear but it's baby steps and it feels like we take a step back every time we go out!

Any advice - on how to deal with loose dogs and conquering his fear - would be appreciated!

I agree Againfaster.. I grew up not really liking dogs and being scared of them so my parents done the responsible thing and taught me how to deal with it the right way.

Whilst I agree owners are responsible for their dogs behaviour and should have control, they are still animals at the end of the day and we'll never have 100% control 100% of the time... And it still doesn't diminish the responsibility of other humans and how they react/treat animals.. Obviously there's some exceptional circumstances where this isn't always possible. My non verbal ASD DN can't be anywhere near dogs, he is terrified of them but that's not the owners fault, my SIL ensures that if she sees a dog she keeps DN away before he spots it as his meltdown will not only be distressing but can also affect the dogs reaction, we're not robots, neither are animals. We still have to be self aware and I'm glad my parents taught me not to scream and get all flappy when seeing a dog.

I'm still not a doggy person after all these years but am able to deal with it just like the OP is trying to do with her child.

My dog is scared of motorbikes.

Can we have a thread where I complain that people ride motorbikes down the road and terrify my dog, and people then agree that motorbikes shouldn't be ridden in proximity to dogs in case they scare them?

And you all need to stop putting your bins out. My dog is scared of wheelie bins.

My child’s behaviour around dogs is fine. He knows not to approach them, scream, be loud, touch them etc and he knows not to poke, pull fur or tails, or provoke any animal. Hes shy and very gentle with family dogs. . He wouldn’t go near one he didn’t know. He’s not loud, or some sort of stick wielding dog baiting brat - he’s a shy toddler.

He also likes to run and play in our park. If a dog runs at him him while he’s playing in the park he’s going to run away. Because he’s tiny and he doesn’t understand stop, face, assert. If a dog then chases him, that’s not the fault of the child, it’s the dog being out of control. If a dog did that and hurt him in any way I’d be pushing for consequences- normal child play in parks is not an excuse for dogs to be running kids down and I’m gobsmacked that people think that’s ok. Control your dogs! I don’t care if a running child triggers their instinct - if you can’t train to override that your dog isn’t safe around kids. It’s not sweet or funny or the dog being friendly - it’s scary as fuck for a two year old.

I’ve actually just shown this thread to a colleague of mine who is a dog trainer and competes with her dogs in agility contests. She had some choice words to say.

Dogphobia thank you for your story.
My ds is 12 and still has an irrational fear of dogs, we have no idea why as no obvious incidents.
It really upsets me when my friend, who has a dog, says 'well if you want him to get over his fears just get a dog yourself'. Yeah cos that will make him snap out of it .

If your child is perfectly behaved then hes not the tpne of children we are talking about which cause issues. read my earlier post about the school kids acting like idiots when we walk past on a short lead.

It doesnt take much to be a trainer and go to agility classes but thanks for that story.

No, humans will not stop riding motorbikes or putting bins out because humans are more important than dogs!! There are really some dog owners on this thread who don't seem to get that.

As I think was said upthread, no human should be forced to modify their behaviour for the sake of a dog.

@MinnieMousse
That was a joke! Of course I don't expect people to stop putting their bins out. I was attempting to show how stupid it was to expect humans to stop doing normal everyday things because dog owner CBA to take responsibility.
She is scared of bins though. We are working on it!

If Drone owners flying their craft around local parks, killed a few children per year, maimed a few more and put 100s in Hospital, they d be uproar and these things would very soon be banned.

But dogs and their owners can do more or less the same thing and suddenly its "oh well, they don't kill that many etc etc etc and YOU must moderate your behavior around my out of control mutt"

Dogs can bring great joy to their owners and can make fantastic pets but that does not remove your responsibility to eliminate the impact of your choices.

I wasn't seriously trying to suggest that people were going to stop riding motorbikes.

However, it does rather highlight the inconsistency that comes with the idea that I shouldn't let my dog off the lead because a child may be scared of him - despite the fact that he will show no interest in your child whatsoever. If I shouldn't be allowed to let my dog off the lead, motorbikes shouldn't be allowed to rev their engines in the vicinity of my dog because they will scare him. It's no different - it's all just beings minding their own business in a law abiding fashion and others happening to have irrational fears that the dog / motorcyclist cannot predict or prevent.

The idea that humans are automatically more important does, however, betray an attitude that suggests the world should revolve around your own personal interests and desires. You forget that dogs come with humans who find (for instance) that we have to pick our routes to minimise the number of motorbikes we see (which is really no different to someone avoiding dog heavy parks). And I fail to see why your two legged creature's irrational fear is any more valid than my four legged creatures's irrational fear.

I'll keep trying to train my dog out of his irrational fear, you keep trying to train your child out of their irrational fear and maybe we can all carry on with our normal day to day activities.

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages
Just stop with all the sensible live and let live nonsense. This thread is only for the hysterical people. None of your common sense here please.

I think a lot of small dog owners think that because their dog is small and cute then there is less of a need for it to be trained.

Last week myself and my friend were walking her BMD when a male Bichon frise ran over and started chasing our dog. Being a BMD she is a big dog but is wary around other dogs and doesn't like being chased. The owner of the Bichon was far away and called his dog back who ignored him, he made no attempt to come over and retrieve his dog. I had to get his dog off of our dog myself.

@WolfieFan Just a moment, I'm off to start a government petition to ban motorbikes because they're inconvenient to me personally

If Drone owners flying their craft around local parks, killed a few children per year, maimed a few more and put 100s in Hospital, they d be uproar and these things would very soon be banned.

Or alternatively...
If car owners driving their vehicles around local towns, killed a few children per year, maimed a few more and put 100s in Hospital, they d be uproar and these things would very soon be banned.

Oh, wait, why haven't cars been banned? 60 deaths of road users under 16 per year... not to mention those who are seriously injured (2,352) or slightly injured (17,062) (2011 stats). Your logic is inconsistent; there are some very everyday things far more likely to kill or seriously injure your child than dogs, but are so often ignored because they're so deeply embedded in our culture.

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages
Run for PM. I will vote for you. If the U.S. Can have a tango president then surely we can have an Avocado PM?!

Could you start with a small dog? I have a tiny floof and the kids that are wary are usually pretty happy to come and pat her if I'm holding her. The holding seems to be the bit that can convince them to get brave enough to investigate.

After some time they seem to enjoy her licking their hands and once they're used to her, I can have them kick her ball for her (she's jumpy and it directs her energy more appropriately).

I used to be terrified of dogs as a kid (love them now), my turning point was my sister getting a retriever puppy. It was impossible to be afraid of him (I was an adult by then) and now I'm a dog person.

You shouldn't let your dog off the lead as you would then have limited control over it and it's an animal capable of causing fear and harm.

Sorry, some things are essential, transport is one of them, dogs however fall into a hobby or life style choice, such owning a drone!

If you want to make this comparison to cars, then we ll have insurance, tax, licencing, ability to own....... not such an attractive comparison now?

I happen to like dogs, if i didnt work i'd have another, growing up with them about was great fun, however back in the 70s there werent so many around and we lived in the countryside and they didnt look ike hungry wolves nor weighed 35kg.
No one is suggesting dogs are banned, so look after your dog, clean up after it, keep it on a lead (in public) and make sure you can control it and then debates like this would never happen.

My son was like this when he was younger. We were out walking one day and met a lovely chap with 2 excitable dogs who recognised my son's fear and took time to introduce the dogs and talk to my son about how to approach dogs etc. Never had a problem after that and I'll always be grateful to that man.

Do you know anyone with a gentle dog that your son could spend time with?

And I fail to see why your two legged creature's irrational fear is any more valid than my four legged creatures's irrational fear.

This the nub of the problem. Of course a child's fear is more important than a dog's.

The idea that humans are automatically more important does, however, betray an attitude that suggests the world should revolve around your own personal interests and desires.

Owning a dog is a personal desire!

If you choose to own a dog, that is fine by me so long as your dog doesn't impact on me and my kids in a public space. I live near a common with a footpath across it into town. It is widely used by people walking into town and across to the park. It's also widely used by dog walkers. Most of them keep their dogs on the lead or call them over when you are walking past. However, my 3 year old had a dog jump up at her as we were walking along and knock her over. I was walking along last summer wearing shorts and a dog jumped up at my legs and left claw marks all down them. On both occasions we were minding our own business walking along. Both owners just shouted "He's friendly!"

If you are one of the sensible dog owners we don't have a problem with you, but too many owners are oblivious as long as their dog is happy. There should be some clearer rules about what is acceptable and what should happen if dog owners don't stick to it.

My friend’s spaniels sent ds flying backwards onto a stone floor when he was a toddler “Oh, sorry” she said “they aren’t used to two legged puppies”.

My son (2.6) doesn’t have an irrational fear of dogs. He’s a bit wary of them, which is fine for me. Dog keeps its distance and behaves? Child will point happily at dog and carry on playing. Fabulous. Dog knocks him down or chases him when he’s just bimbling around playing? Not fine. He’s going to be upset. He’s a quiet well behaved child who would never behave loudly or poke a dog, but he’s been scared in the past by poorly behaved dogs and that’s just really shit - I dont want him to be terrified of dogs, I want him to be sensible around them. That’s hard to do when the majority I meet in the park are NOT behaving like your disinterested pooch. How can I tell him ‘it’s ok, the dog isn’t bothered about you, you just keep on and he will do his thing’ when far too many dogs don’t? :( and far too many owners don’t give a fuck.

There are good dog owners out there - there are also far too many who shouldn’t be allowed to own them because they are irresponsible idiots. A bit like car drivers to be honest ...

It’s just frustrating - I want him to grow up with a healthy respect for and appropriate behaviour around dogs but at least 2/3 of the ones we encounter day to day just aren’t well behaved or under control enough to do anything but scare him. And that’s not his fault. He’s just little and he’s well behaved - it’s the bad owners who need to give their heads a wobble.

I've got two dogs, I've also got six acres of woodland that doesn't have any public rights of way. You can only guess what happened, a trespasser told me my dogs should be on the lead on my private land. That's how entitled people are about their needs above dog owners now. I did ask if I could come and tell them what they should be doing in their back garden. Strangely enough they declined, wankers.

Looking at this thread I'm pleased to have my land, because it seems that a dog has to be a fecking faultless robot to be accepted by some of these hysterical posters. And I bet they or their kids don't behave beautifully 100% of the time,

Yes, you have irresponsible owners but they aren't the majority, yes you have killer dogs but they are an incredibly tiny minority and it's often at the behest of the owners that they're aggressive. But looking at some of these posts makes my piss boil, people should have a bit of tolerance, after all, if you've got kids then it's almost 100% likely that people around you will be showing tolerance at times - kids can be horrendous sometimes.

I have had a dog on a lead sitting nicely in an outside cafe in a park with a small child thinking it was funny to try to poke a stick into my dog's eye. Of course of course it is beholden to the dog owner to make sure the dog is under control - no debate there from me - but a bit of common sense works both ways. By and large where I live - people are responsible with their dogs - clearly I have lucked out hugely from reading this thread.

My middle son was like this. He used to completely overreact on seeing a dog. He would run so the dogs would start chasing him or would scream and wave his arms around so every dog in the vicinity would run over and start playing with him. I will have the image of him running screaming on the moors with three happy dogs chasing after him (having a fab time) forever imprinted oh my mind. I was shouting STAND STILL. He couldn’t. It looked like a cartoon

A bigger problem was that all his friends had dogs and he made such a fuss that he was starting to not be invited to their houses after school etc.

Anyway when he was 9 we got a dog ourselves (a retriever puppy) and he’s been fine since then. He’s still a bit wary of dogs tbh (unlike Ds3 who adores all dogs) and doesn’t seem able to read dog body language very well (so will mistake an excited dog for an aggressive one) but isn’t terrified of them and is able to behave sensibly around all dogs now - even big & bonkers ones. Invitations to people’s houses started again as soon as he stopped completely overreacting and he no longer gets chased by dogs on the beach or moors.

I haven’t read the thread but if you can find an owner that has a calm friendly dog and go for some quiet walks. Even better if the dog will play fetch. My dog has helped several children conquer their fear. But don’t force contact, usually just bring around a dog, but not too close and interacting or playing will help the child understand the dog a bit better and in time desensitise the child. I personally cannot stand owners that allow their dog to run up to kids. My dog used to do that to older kids as he was owned previously by a 10 year old boy but I trained him out of it. It’s not ok.

I fully think that children for their own benefit need to learn how to behave around animals they will regularly encounter but clearly some people are scared of dogs so need space.

I equally cannot stand owners that allow their dogs to run up to mind whilst he’s on the lead. He’s been attacked by other dogs and is getting more nervous, but they say “my dog’s friendly”, yeah, “why’s he barking in my dogs face then?” Grr. Check before your dog approaches another dog or person.