WWYD? Dogs and fearful child

[teaandtwigs]

My DS (5) is incredibly fearful of dogs. He was rushed at by big dogs as a toddler and has struggled since. If they are on a lead, he comes round to the opposite side of me to get past them, that's fine. Our issue is with unleashed dogs that we meet out on walks (we have footpaths near our house/often walk round woods locally/at NT properties). They will very often be running/having a grand old time (as they are obviously allowed to do!) but he will literally climb up me to get away from them/become loudly distressed if they approach/jump round our feet, which makes them all the more excited and jump more.

Unfortunately at this point, the owners always seem to be miles back, the dogs won't recall or the owners will shout, 'don't worry, they are friendly' and make no attempt to get the dog/s away. I can see they are friendly but that doesn't stop my DS from trying to sit on my head!

I'm just not sure what to do at this point - when I asked one lady to please take a hold of her dog she told me that her dog had every right to be there, and we'd have to stay home if ds was going to 'act like that'.

I know we have to work on helping ds through his fear but it's baby steps and it feels like we take a step back every time we go out!

Any advice - on how to deal with loose dogs and conquering his fear - would be appreciated!

If you went in the field with them they would likely be more wary - they know the difference between potential snack source over the fence and an intruder in their space - I’ve owned horses and even the greedy friendly ‘head over the fence and begging’ type act differently if you are in their field. They are prey animals and they act accordingly.

I also always give dogs and horses a move over when I’m running. Responsible owners acknowledge, and keep the dog under control. I’ve also had to tackle several out of control and aggressive dogs which I’ve managed to do without injury because I’ve been lucky and I know how to but a small child cannot be expected to know how to stand and deal with an aggressive dog or even an over friendly dog - they cannot tell the difference and it’s not down to them.

Dogs are great pets but it’s a responsibility to own them. I’ve worked with a lot of working dogs and I’ve seen what good training can do. The majority I’d say of pet dogs are not trained to anywhere near the standard they should be and owners are careless and irresponsible far too much of the time. Witness the amount of dog shit everywhere and the sheer number of dogs out of control.

All dogs should be chipped, licenced and undergo mandatory training imo.

mindutopia probably means apprehensive. It is wise for children to be apprehensive of dogs, especially dogs they don't know, but even dogs they do know.

Dogs have sharp teeth and strong jaws. They are canines and attacking other animals (including humans) is in their genes. With good training the risk of attack is low, but not completely eliminated but who knows how well trained any random dog in the park is?

What we do know is that many are untrained or badly trained. So it is certainly wise for children to be apprehensive of dogs. I strongly suspect that most of the children who have been seriously injured or killed in the UK had a friendly disposition towards the dogs that harmed them, or at least regarded them as no risk.

I have a two year old and a newborn..2 year old likes looking at dogs but is a little nervous. Anyway i was on the underground-style local train with the double pushchair and noticed a staffie type dog jumping all over the seats, scrambling on other passengers. The owner (who appeared to be under the influence of something) kept letting go of the lead and this unrestrained dog was come closer and closer to us. I asked the man to "keep a tight hold of the lead please" and he said "the dogs soft as owt". I said "oh im sure she is but my children don't know that and i don't want her to jump up and inadvertently frighten them" so if you could just keep hold of the lead. He then told me "the bairns gotta learn". I lost it, told him if his dog came anywhere my babies it would be met with my boot in its face . Not my finest.moment but no way was i trusting a random dog with my babies. In the end i got off and moved to the carriage behind.

Im not a dog person at all but have no issue with responsible dog owners. I was brought up with dogs as my nana lookef after us and always had dogs. However irresponsible, selfish dog owners really make me angry.

Do you not need a license to own a dog anymore?

Oh yeah, many of them can run faster than children can, and some are strong enough to pin you down while they maul you. I respect the abilities of dogs. That's why I never get too close, and I watch owner and dog very carefully.

Shouting "please keep your dog under control" won't help the situation that is ongoing, all it does is making you opinion on dogs known, and there will always be another dog/owner on another day to encounter (I don't think MN is single handedly going to change the dog culture in the UK).

Learning skills to protect yourself (and that does NOT include kicking dogs), is more useful than thinking/knowing you are right, and will keep you much safer!

I’m fine with my son being apprehensive of dogs. Dogs are potentially dangerous and I’d much rather he was wary (not terrified, wary) of them then unafraid - there are just too many really crap dog owners out there.

You don’t need a licence in most of the Uk - I think it might be different in Ireland.

They should bring back licensing and make training, insurance etc compulsory. Far too many unsuitable owners and out of control, poorly owned dogs.

My sister is really terrified of dogs, I think because of seeing me bitten when I was in primary school. The dog from next door came through our hedge and bit me, she witnessed it, it was probably more scary to witness than to be in it. Despite having a professional job etc she still is really frightened of them/will cross the road to avoid them.

I don't think I could kick a dog in the face but I do utterly hate when they are free and jump up at you. They can damage your coat or clothing or get mud over you and who wants to wash freshly washed jeans? It's more the invasion of personal space as well - I'd like to be able to go for a walk without being accosted by dogs. One knocked me over when I was sitting in a park, it was horrible. As for children, I can imagine crouching down and seeing it from their perspective, must be frightening.

I always feel very sorry when children have dog phobias, because animals are so good for kids. It seems to be most kids who don't have dogs who have some level of fear.
I've got two very nice dogs, one very calm and placid, she's really good at relaxing them, then the other takes over who is playful, any visit is finished with the fearful child running round screaming with excitement as the youngest' antics. It's only ever failed once when the child squealed so loudly that the dogs looked a bit hurt and I decided it'd be more pleasant for them to be somewhere else.
So most of the time exposure is the key. And dogs are everywhere, it's a fear that needs to be worked on in the same way that if you had a phobia of cars going past - it's pretty much unavoidable. But it's a phobia that if it's beaten can be wonderful for a child.

I would try to find a dog trainer who would give your son lessons with their own trained dogs, building up very slowly. I think he would feel a bit better if he could understand their codes and learn a bit of communicating with body language and voice commands.

I was knocked over by a German Shepherd when I was young and this is exactly what my parents did. I however have always loved dogs and have my own, but am still nervous around other people's dogs off the lead, but at least I can tell if a dog is aggressive or friendly and can send them right about, so I feel much more in control.

That lady was very rude, If only you could borrow a tiger and have the same attitude

I have this issue with my DD, is has HF ASD. She crawls up me and she is 9. Our neighbour had a Jack Russell that used to charge from the garden barking and threatening when anyone passed, he got ran over eventually. My elderly neighbour always said aw he won't bite.

The school walk is the worst. Owners walking their friendly none biting dog to the school, it is bad enough dodging the shit of irresponsible dog owners.

It is a hard one, I have no advise I was considering getting a puppy but they nip and that is her fear.

Well I know I will be flamed for this but we don’t let our dog off lead at all except in the totally fenced garden. We walk her on the lead.

I think dogs should always be leashed in a public place.

We have had massive dogs come running up to my dog on the lead growling and I just pick her up.

If you have s dog walk it on s lead or have an enclosed garden, we spent over £700 putting deer fencing around our big garden. It’s part of being a responsibly owner.

I've been really confused by an increased "fear" of dogs with kids and even ones in highschool around where i live. I wish people would learn how to behave around dogs too.
I often walk mine on a lead past a highschool , he walks nicely and pays no attention to anyone else (he is also small, fluffy and pathetic looking) but the girls scream hysterically and jump around / half run away. I think they somehow think it's cool to act like this (god knows why) in front of their friends, but there couldnt be a better way to MAKE a dog attack you of you tried! crazy.

my nephew was like this, and my mum told him that a dog won't knock you over etc if you pretend you are a tree. If you watch dog running round, they never bumo into trees, or jump up at tree, so stand still and pretend to be a tree and they will run round you and leave you alone.

The other thing that helped was finding someone with a large gentle dog. Funnily enough the 3 kids I know who were scared of dogs have all responded best to a large dog, rather than a small one.
Friendly gentle non jumping up dog, and introduce them in a safe setting, first from a distance and have the owner get the dog to sit and talk calmly about the dog, explaining what he is doing.

and just in defence of the 'he's friendly' brigade.
I have a dog and he is very friendly, (and doesn't usually run up to people, but avoids them) but if he does get close, I call him off, and at the same time reassure people that he is friendly, simply to reassure that he isn't dangerous.

I hate owners who let their dogs run at you. I'm scared of dogs and now avoid parks and country walks for this reason.

My DD (almost 3) gets nervous too as she's been knocked over by boisterous dogs a few times. Now I pick her up as soon as I see one off lead. I don't think there's anything wrong with lifting a child off the ground. Imagine the dog from their perspective (or imagine a dog so big it's level with your shoulder!)

If a dog is really bothering us or jumping up I usually pick up a stone and throw it as far as I can (in the direction it came from) so it chases it. They usually bring the stone back but I just keep throwing it until the owner appears, then I tell them my toddler is scared of their dog and please keep it on a lead. Most people are nice about it.

Horses and sheep don’t charge people unless threatened. A horse or sheep in an area will not approach people as a rule.

Hypermice - no my horse won't actually charge at you if a runner comes belting past pumping arms and legs but he might be frightened or startled enough to spin and plunge about and if you're in his way - tough - you might be knocked over as he tries to get away in his panic. Horses are prey animals and see threats where you (a non-horsey person) wouldn't see a threat. One of my horses had a total meltdown the other day when some people walking towards her decided to put their umbrella up. They didn't think this was threatening - she was startled at this strange object suddenly shooting up in front of her and being waved about and felt scared (threatened). Luckily they put it down again very quickly when I called out to please not put the umbrella up and there was enough room on the track for horse and walkers not to collide as she was spinning and plunging about. And before anyone starts banging on about horses shouldn't be on the road if they can't behave - this was on private farmland.

Basic courtesy towards horse riders and dog walkers goes a long way. My big greyhound is NEVER off the lead but she will bounce around on the spot with excitement sometimes. She is however "under control" to my satisfaction, just bouncing around a bit. Why the hell shouldn't she? She's not going anywhere, I keep her away from other dogs and pedestrians. My other dog is only ever off the lead on tracks where all the local dogs go for walks. He would actually run away from people and other dogs back towards me. If I couldn't trust him not to, he'd be on the lead.

Dogs are not robots and people expecting every dog in the land to be trained to Crufts standard are being a tad unrealistic. Of course dogs in public places shouldn't be running up to other people and jumping up at them, but there's a world of difference between a highly trained and completely unreactive dog (think seeing-eye dogs) and the average pet who is likely to well enough trained but who still might jump about if runners come belting past waving their arms about.

My dd now 11 was like this at until about 5 when we decided to get another dog. Dd has never had a bad experience but was just terrified and would run panicking when she saw one despite coming from a family of dog lovers. We gradually introduced her to a friends 5 labradoodles and before long she was planning to kidnap one!
We've now got a 6 yr old goldendoodle who is a registered therapy dog if you harm to be Norfolk/ Suffolk I'd happily meet you ( from a distance) if that would help.

Do you know anyone who owns a small, friendly dog you could borrow? I was a brownie leader for years and we often had little girls who were scared of dogs. I had a very cute tiny Westie who always came with us on walks in the woods. Even the most scared would eventually pluck up the courage to take a turn at holding the lead. Getting to know and handle a small 'safe' dog seemed to really help them.

I hate when dog owners do this too, especially with small children.

I was terrified of dogs when I was small, I would do exactly what your child does now. The only way that I got over it was to be introduced to dogs slowly, and get bigger.

Partner was desperate for a dog and now, I'm an owner and a lover. My dog is very excitable around new people though, so never take her off the lead on walks.

This responsibility cuts both ways crap really pisses me off. Ds is non verbal and severely autistic. He is terrified of dogs approaching him. It actually makes it really difficult and has stopped us from going for walks at the moment. There is no reason why dogs should be loose on paths and ds has absolutely no control over his shrieking and backing away when one approaches.

I'd agree with this:

"The other thing that helped was finding someone with a large gentle dog. Funnily enough the 3 kids I know who were scared of dogs have all responded best to a large dog, rather than a small one.
Friendly gentle non jumping up dog, and introduce them in a safe setting, first from a distance and have the owner get the dog to sit and talk calmly about the dog, explaining what he is doing."

Large dogs seem to be more calm, my ten year old Labrador is big but very placid. She just stands there whilst a child is fearful, and it doesn't take long for a child to realise nothing is happening and then it tends to be fine from then in. Finding a large calm dog who's seen it all before is a great idea.

There's a lot of posts about kids with ASD who have phobias, again it's a real shame because dogs are increasingly being used as therapy dogs with children with ASD. It really helps.

Both of my dc are scared of dogs, both because of stupid dog owners. My dd was knocked clean off her feet by a dog that came out of nowhere about a year ago when she was almost 2. She is very nervous when she sees a dog and would prefer to be carried past dogs off the lead but she doesn't scream or flap. Tbh she has never been very keen on animals in general but really is afraid of dogs now, quite understandably in my opinion.

My son is 4 and until very recently loved dogs. About 3 weeks ago we were sat on a bench having some lunch and a dog came up from behind him and snatched a sandwich out of his hand. Now he's scared to death of them. He's scared even when they're on the lead but when they're off and coming around us he cries out and tries to climb up us.

I really didn't teach them to be afraid of dogs. I think it's a perfectly reasonable response on their part tbh. I have tried to show them to stay calm and quiet but at the moment with my son he's just too frightened. I think it was Wolfie who suggested dogs trust? They are having a fun day not too far from me soon, has anyone ever been to one? I'm guessing that it will be a mixture of trained and untrained dogs?? I think my dd would absolutely hate it but as my ds liked them so much before i'm hoping that the snatching dog hasn't ruined dogs for him. A whole fun day might be just too much for him. I just wish owners would keep their dogs under control. I've had to say 'please re call your dog' so many times recently to be met with the usual 'he's a softie', 'he only jumps but won't hurt them' stuff.

Sorry to derail slightly, but what exactly should you do if you are out running and a dog gets interested?

I’be Been lucky, but the other day some yappy little thing started chasing me and would not stop. I was running across the middle of a field so it was not a case of moving away as I was nowhere near it when it started.

And if I had slowed down it would still have been after me.

I do like dogs a lot, but I also find running hard and rewarding and frankly I do resent having to stop and walk, or change my route or break my hard won rhythm. Bit I would
Like to know the right thing to do.

The pp who said their male family members would punch a woman who kicked their out of control dog... theres your problem right there! Appalled at that comment!