WWYD? Dogs and fearful child

[teaandtwigs]

My DS (5) is incredibly fearful of dogs. He was rushed at by big dogs as a toddler and has struggled since. If they are on a lead, he comes round to the opposite side of me to get past them, that's fine. Our issue is with unleashed dogs that we meet out on walks (we have footpaths near our house/often walk round woods locally/at NT properties). They will very often be running/having a grand old time (as they are obviously allowed to do!) but he will literally climb up me to get away from them/become loudly distressed if they approach/jump round our feet, which makes them all the more excited and jump more.

Unfortunately at this point, the owners always seem to be miles back, the dogs won't recall or the owners will shout, 'don't worry, they are friendly' and make no attempt to get the dog/s away. I can see they are friendly but that doesn't stop my DS from trying to sit on my head!

I'm just not sure what to do at this point - when I asked one lady to please take a hold of her dog she told me that her dog had every right to be there, and we'd have to stay home if ds was going to 'act like that'.

I know we have to work on helping ds through his fear but it's baby steps and it feels like we take a step back every time we go out!

Any advice - on how to deal with loose dogs and conquering his fear - would be appreciated!

If you can't keep your puppy or dog under control near kids ElsieMay123 keep it on a lead. You've clearly got no recall skills of course it's not a child's responsibility to stand still if your out of control dog runs up to it . Take it to a field where it won't bother anyone
Gradual exposure is the best method of overcoming this fear however a bit of caution with dogs is a good idea if you ask me

Round us we have a couple of walkers cafes were dogs on lead are allowed in and there are always lots of dogs (but under control). Might be a worthwhile step in his progression to visit somewhere like that. He doesn't have to approach the dogs, just be around them, with some cake or hot chocolate, so it's no big deal. Lots of little steps.

I'm with Elsie .
Responsibility goes both ways.

My dog doesn't approach people, nor jump at them, bark, lunge etc and if I see a nervous looking person I do call her back and put her in a sit until they pass but she does race around instead of walking a lot of the time.

Fortunately, my dog doesn't respond to hysterical screaming, arm waving and running, she will ignore and run past.
But many dogs will respond by running at the hysterical person, jumping up, even getting aggressive.

I have had grown people scream and run hysterically from huge distance where the dog hasn't even clocked them and is trotting around minding her own business and parents feeding their child's fear by saying negative things like it's okay, we'll stay away from the horrible dog, it might bite you etc.

It's not helpful, dogs are everywhere, you can't avoid them.
You don't have to like them but it should work both ways.
Owners shouldn't be letting their dogs bounce at and frighten people but equally people should really try hard to teach their children to be still and ignore and not flap around hysterically.

Responsibility cuts both ways and assuming dogs are allowed then people need to know what to do around dogs as much as dogs need to be trained.

No. Absolutely not. The responsibility is SOLELY on the dog owner to keep their dog under control.

The only responsibility a passer by has is not harm/be aggressive/hurt the dog. They absolutely do not have a responsibility to stop their child waving their arms or bring scared. Children and humans have precedence over dogs, every single time.

If your dog is jumpy yes there is something you can do - you keep it in a lead so it cannot jump on people and you train it so it doesn’t jump. Until then it is not under your control. dogs must be under control in public places.

I’m pretty sick of the ‘I can’t help him jumping/he’s a puppy/he’s so friendly’ brigade. Dog under control in public place or no dog!

I can't stop a distressed profoundly disabled child acting like a distressed profoundly disabled child. It is far easier to stop a dog running up to people ( like I do with my child).

Elsie - We turn our backs, I ask him to be quiet and as still as possible (he is usually in my arms by then) but as you know when you're having a fear based response, it's hard enough as an adult to control your response, let alone when you are 5. Even with backs turned, they just run round the front to jump, and I also have a 3 year old who thinks it's hilarious, so they get the encouragement there too.

We have a dog within the family but it is massive, and he won't even enter the house of my friend who has dogs who spend 90% of their lives asleep, as they would be the perfect dogs to desensitize with

Owners shouldn't be letting their dogs bounce at and frighten people but equally people should really try hard to teach their children to be still and ignore and not flap around hysterically.

There’s no equivalence here. If your dog is jumping at people it is not under your control. So you honestly expect a small child to sit perfectly still and not be terrified of a large dog that’s jumped at them? Owners like that are the cause of the problem.

Dogs should be under control at all times in public areas.

No one should be aggressive, charging at or harming a dog in public but that’s as far as it goes - the responsibility is on the owner to have the dog under control.

But I do agree with hypermice - if your dog is at my feet jumping/running in circles around us then it's not under control and the responsibility lies with the dog owner to get them away, not with me and my children

I think it's Dogs Trust that do a session teaching kids about their work, what to do if a dog runs up etc. They use a fluffy toy. No actual dog.
Also dog stories and films are useful. Know anyone with a PAT dog? Controlled desensitisation should help.
Obviously what would help is for dog owners to keep their dogs under control. (Yes I have a dog.)

Carry food, something easily portable and throw it away from you, to catch and hold the dog's attention. If the owner doesn't like it, tell them you'll do what you need to to keep your child safe, and they are committing a criminal offence by not keeping their dog under control, such that someone fears they will be hurt. That's what I would do.

My dog does not jump hypermouse.
Of course not, but I do think parents should try and encourage calm behaviour.
I have seen some truly awful parenting where they have well and truly fed the fear and encouraged the hysterical response and it is not helpful to anyone.
The responsibility does go both ways.
Why is it okay for people to scream and shout and flap around dogs but not do the same around horses or sheep?
Dogs seem to be held up to some impossible standard, they are animals at the end of the day.
We should all try and be respectful and understand that if you act hysterically it upsets animals so best to try not to.

If a dog who was nearly as tall as me came lolloping over i would be scared. My son was afraid of dogs for years after an out of control dog knocked him over when he was three. The owner apologised but said she couldn't control it due to being in a wheelchair!

Don't take food. The dog may eat it and come back for more. A ball would be a better idea.

My dd is 5 and the same. 80% of the time we encounter an unleashed dog, they rush her barking and growling. She gets knocked down and trampled. Even my 68 year old mum has been knocked over several times by especially big dogs. 9 times out of 10 the owners do nothing and don’t apologise. I’ve taught her to be afraid of dogs as a precaution and honestly if they come at us and I can, I kick them in the face (the dogs, sadly not the owners, though I’d much prefer to kick them!). Any dog rushing at my child who is out of control will be intervened with. I wish owners will be more responsible, but I deal with it myself and I think it’s good my dd knows to be afraid of them because you just never know. I’ve been bitten from dogs from behind several times when I didn’t even see them coming and it’s terrifying to think what might have happened if she had been with me!

So many more people have dogs these days and very few have any idea how to look after them or train them. We have problems in our wider family of non 'dog people' having dogs and not training them, walking them often enough and letting them on sofas and beds, so there is no separation of dog space and people space and no way of dogs and dcs getting away from each other. My PILs let their little hostile dog off the lead and have witnessed a couple of incidents where he was being a nuisance to others.

Responsibility cuts both ways and assuming dogs are allowed then people need to know what to do around dogs as much as dogs need to be trained.

No, humans trump dogs. Can't believe someone suggested it was ok for their dog to go bothering runners because they were waving their arms about. People should be free to go about their everyday business without being bothered by dogs. Dog owners are expected by law to keep their dogs under control.

Teaching your child to be afraid is not doing her any favours. And kicking a dog? Stupid. Can end in you being bitten. Or even thumped by an irate owner.

When I am running past dogs I always move over and always slow down. If the owner is actually near the dog I also always make sure I acknowledge the owner.

Yesterday I encountered 4 dogs. A small dog on an extending lead stretched over the path - sadly I’m not very good at hurdling, another small dog on stretching lead where the owner released the lead more and it started snapping at my ankles

I also encountered two larger dogs both off lead - one the owner simply said “heel” and the dog walked perfectly next to its owner and the other was playing at the edge of a field and the owner simply held its collar while I passed (and I of course thanked both owners)

It’s nothing to do with size or type of dog but everything to do with the owner and how well they know and train their dog.

I don't think it is particularly helpful to op case to get into a debate about whether or not all dogs should be on lead/held up to unrealistic standards. The reality is there are (and will be for the foreseeable future) dogs off the lead that op and her little boy will come across. So advice on how best to handle this is good advice.

Not sure having treats will work, with a pocket full of treats you will become the pied Piper to labradors!!

Why is it okay for people to scream and shout and flap around dogs but not do the same around horses or sheep?

Horses and sheep don’t charge people unless threatened. A horse or sheep in an area will not approach people as a rule. If a small child is being charged by a dog of course they are going to be scared! The dog MUST be under control. The onus is not on the child, it’s totally on the dog owner.

If they cannot be trusted not to charge small children, run up and jump on people then you keep them on a lead. I used to take a great ex working spaniel out with me running. On the lead, always, around people until he could be trusted to never approach people. Dogs are very trainable - I just don’t believe that people can’t train them to not jump. If you can’t, the dog stays on a lead.
I once encountered a group of school kids having a picnic on one of our regular routes. Dog recalled and leashed as I thought sandwiches galore might be too much temptation! That dog NEVER even so much as approached a child or adult while we were out, because it was trained. I’d have been mortified if he’d have jumped or scared a child and I would have apologised profusely.

Bottom line: If your dog is jumping or running at people it’s not under control and the law says dogs MUST be under control in public places.

I absolutely wouldn’t recommend kicking a dog in the face to get it away from you! Just ignore it and it will lose interest and find something more fun to do.

Really the horses near me come charging (playfully) up to the fence when I pass, I wouldn't want to be in the field with them! I also wouldn't run up behind a horse quietly and unannounced, as runners regularly do with my dog, and expect a positive outcome, to either myself or the rider!

mindutopia how unbelievably stupid.
What happens if the kicked dog decides to bite you as some will?
You won't win, their reflexes are fast enough to bite you more than once before you're brain registers you've been bitten.
I wonder if you would still willing to do so if the owner happened to be a big burly man.
I'm not terribly strong and fairly non confrontational but I can't think of a single male member of my family who wouldn't give you a strong punch for kicking their dog...

Our DS1 was exactly the same, climbing onto my head hysterical whenever a dog came bounding over. This was the result of being sent flying by an out of control lab when he was 18mo. The sort of owners that allow excitable dogs off the lead and run up to people are not at all helpful - yes I know “hrsxonly being friendly” but my terrified child didn’t and is understandably scared he’d be sent flying again.

What really helped was seeing a friend who has two highly trained working dogs. We did some gradual exposure, and once he realised these dogs had excellent recall and would lie still for hours, making them predictable, he calmed right down and is now fine with dogs out and about.

The "please keep your dog under control" is the perfect response, dogs are allowed off lead yes, but in any public space, even off lead the dog must be under the owners control.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

I feel for you, we've got an awesome dog, he's completely chilled about pretty much everything (squirrels aside) and he's helped a few kids get over their dog fear.

But we've spent years training him and refreshing his training so that he will obey commands even from a distance, I wish more people would do the same.