to say not in my name

[yetanothertranswoman]

When transactivists threaten a woman organising a clothes swap on Facebook and get the venue to stop the event just because they don't like the views of the organiser.

Not in my name

When transactivists threaten women on twitter and tell them to 'suck my lady penis'.

Not in my name

When transactivists threaten women with hate laws and call in the police because they express their opinions.

Not in my name

When transactivists demand access to single sex spaces despite not bothering with thinking about how the women might feel.

Not in my name

When transactivists shut down venues and silence people who have their own concerns over what is going on.

Not in my name.

so I'm assuming that I (and others like me) are massively outnumbered before we even speak up

No, you're not outnumbered yetanother.

It's just that the voices of the MRA's as ever, are louder than those of transexuals, because they are serving a political purpose the liberal media actually like: attacking women's rights.

There is community and friendship out there for you and believe me, your voiced are needed and valued.

YANBU yetanothertranswoman. It's rough how much is being done in trans people's names that seems to be more about individual power grabs and how much people say is going to help dysphoric people but has nowt to do with most of us.

SophoclesTheFox I agree with yet that some of the videos that have come out of various meetings which have had some fantastic stuff have also included some uncomfortable viewing due to the generalizations that were made. I agree those sorts of environments are important and yet can get quite toxic.

Some of the higher profile people from We Need to Talk and Women's Place have been using social media sites continue that toxic bubble of echo chamber and generalizations. I keep having some of them say things like trans people didn't exist however many years ago they want, a lot of them say trans rather than trans activists when slinging rather horrible accusations as well as being rather dismissive of trans and other dysphoric people no matter what we do. I had someone recently...it wasn't an attack but I certainly felt I was being mocked and treated like an enemy tell me that my using language like dysphoric or saying agender when discussing research showing that not all people have a gender identity or other language this woman deemed to be TRA language meant I would be protected from TRA attacks and as such I was not a proper female standing up to women's rights to her. I think it too often gets forgotten that dysphoric people, however we identify, get abused and threatened for not toeing the moving goalposts as well. There are reasons so many of us hide and are not sure how to safely stand up after years of getting it in the neck from all sides.

I mean, on Day of Trans Visibility last Saturday there were some great things on twitter celebrating trans people who are gender critical and otherwise allies in the fight for women's rights. I then had on one side several feminists have a go at those people and say things like gender critical trans women is an oxymoron and several other far more vicious things and on the other side the TRAs calling those people "TERF pet traitors" and again quite a lot of horrible things. It sometimes feels like being stuck between a rock and a hard place when no matter how much I like to stay balanced, because I think it is possible and worth it to keep a balanced view of this as a continuation of issues going back, I'm drawn to defend those being attacked, and no matter what I do, part of me is being told to shut up and stop being ridiculous or deal with the consequences.

That sounds really difficult DN4

Thanks for explaining to me - I did think it would probably be on those lines. I didn't agree 100% with all that was said at the WNTT meeting, by any means. As I was sitting there (next to a trans male, as it goes), it did occur at several points how uncomfortable some of the words and reactions from the audience might have been.

It's a hard path to tread - defending women's rights and ability to speak on issues that affect us will most certainly at times feel hurtful to trans people. I think we have to bear that in mind, and try at all times to keep the level of debate up to a good and decent standard. But equally, trans people must try not to tone police, or use disagreement and hurt to shut down what women are saying. We've all got a part to play in making this dialogue productive.

for the OP and for Jenny and for DN4GeekinDerby, I have always found your posts to be really informative.

I agree that I've steered clear of WNTT as they have come over to me as too broad brush and negative about trans people. I'm not interested in prurient details of other people's lives, am frankly too busy to spend time judging others, I just want to safe guard women's rights and safety.

I think Women's Place is my natural home.

The worrying thing is that (I assume) that there are far more angry, testosterone fueled TRA's than there are calmer, transitioned transwomen...so I'm assuming that I (and others like me) are massively outnumbered before we even speak up.

I think there are a great many more aggressive TRAs (many of whom aren't actually trans themselves) than there are of you too, I'm sad to say. But even though you are relatively few in number, you can still organise. And you can build solidarity with feminists and other groups concerned about self-ID. This has to be the way forward.

Are you not bored of the trite repetition in your posts?

It doesn't make you sound clever.

It doesn't make you sound like an amazing public speaker.

It doesn't make you sound like you know what you're talking about.

It does make you sound like someone who thinks they understand how to write something intelligent and engaging.

You lost me as your first statement was a lie. It was the organiser of the clothes swap who spoke to the venue. The venue decided it didn't want to be involved in her politics and took the easy way out.

After reading that crap from majorPentatonic, I can see why you get fed up, OP. There’s always a little TRA/MRA bloke ready to jump onto a thread and talk shite.

now we've had your critique on literary style majorPentatonic, maybe you could say what your actual problem is?

Are you cool with people being told to 'suck my lady penis'?

Are you cool with women being intimidated when they meet peacefully to discuss proposed changes in the law?

Do tell.

it's almost bound to be the case isn't it that the number of transexual women (who have taken the long and hard path) will be outnumbered by the number of men who chose to come under the very broad trans umbrella...and of course they will have louder voices and apparently not much to lose, unlike trnsexual women who have built a life for themselves and understandably don't want to risk it.

I don't know what the solution is really, but we do need to hear voices like OPs.

Perfect example - thanks major - of what you’re contending with OP. Can’t help but feel that TRAs benefit hugely from stirring up infighting between women and transwomen.

Thank you OP

and if only someone had told Martin Luther King to avoid anaphora majorPentatonic, all of that racist unpleasantness in America could have been sorted out so much sooner.

Are you not bored of the trite repetition in your posts

Not in the slightest.

I've read what's going on. I've read the online abuse. The rantings.

I know the implications.

So again - not in my name.

Thank you so much op and to the other trans women who have spoken on this thread. We really, desperately do want and need to hear your voices and I'm glad to have read this

@ReluctantCamper ah. he/she they were emulating King. I missed that.

"maybe you could say what your actual problem is?"

My main one on this thread is the lie the poster told in their first sentence. I like the truth.

@PositivelyPERF - interesting misandry. I'm not a man but assuming I am and the "little" comment shows just how bigoted and ignorant you are.

so a woman getting physically attacked at speakers corner for attending a perfectly legal public meeting is hunky dory, it's the clothes swaps we've got to get right?

Got it.

YetAnother thank you

Perhaps (the large number of) trans people who feel as you do need to organise? I understand it would need to be anonymous. I’d be happy to support you - I have never and will never have a problem with trans people simply wanting to live their lives as they wish / need. I have no concerns about trans women in women’s spaces but I do feel that those who are insisting on taking a very extreme and specific stance are endangering you as much as they’re endangering women. Women will be assaulted more often if self ID happens. You are more likely to experience hatred and violence when you don’t agree with it. It makes me very angry for you, as well as for women.

So the OP is in your view mistaken about the precise chain of events behind a clothes swap being cancelled. This does not explain the fury of your post majorPentatonic.

What's your real beef here?

Thank you Yetanother, Jenny and any other clear headed transpeople who understand the concerns. I am so sorry that you have the crazed activists who believe they are same as you.

"fury"? "beef"?

I don't know bae. I'm so woke and shit but your question doesn't seem lit. I think you're too turnt to be fire. Just a bit salty and not making much sense; trying too hard to be fleek.

I'm not furious.

Vaguely annoyed that an idiotic poster thinks I must be a man because I'm not in total agreement with the OP.

Quite annoyed that the OP completely invented the chain of events that lead to a venue not wanting to get involved in some political argument.

Bored that yet another poster tried to curry favour with a few MN'ers with a post so similar to others I had a feeling of deja vu all over again.

I think that my main "beef" is that, as an English teacher, I wish I could help the OP with their writing style. I assume that they're the right age to be in my iGCSE class.

Quite annoyed that the OP completely invented the chain of events that lead to a venue not wanting to get involved in some political argument

The clothes swap was cancelled - and somehow several prominent trans activists on that thread seemed very pleased about it.

The same ones who threatened to cause a ruck at the now cancelled meeting at Millwall.

So if you are a trans activist trying to stop women talking about their concerns, then fuck off. You do not speak for me and you are not helping the many trans people out there who are trying to lead their lives.

Vaguely annoyed that an idiotic poster thinks I must be a man because I'm not in total agreement with the OP

The actions of these trans activists are not in my name.

There's nothing for you to agree with. It's a fact that their actions are not in my name.

I'm afraid I'm 41 so I didn't understand the entire first half of your post majorPentatonic. But it must be like Dead Poets Society in your classroom.

So, just to recap. In a world where women are physically attacked for holding peaceful and completely legal beliefs, your main issue is that you'd like to give someone guidance on Greek rhetorical devices.

I feel you may be missing the point, but carry on.

"prominent trans activists"

I think you're confused with 'anonymous posters on an internet forum'.

"There's nothing for you to agree with. It's a fact that their actions are not in my name."

Yes. However, people can either agree or disagree with your general standpoint or the specifics you mention. Some posters have agreed with you and I haven't. Obvious, right?

With regard to 'you must be a man' comments, do you not understand how the aggressive gendering of someone because of their opinions is annoying?

On the thread you refer to, one poster who said they were a woman was told not to 'let their penis get caught in the door on the way out'. The misandry is shocking.