Calling Tory Voters

[donquixotedelamancha]

Some recent NHS themed threads have me thinking. I wonder whether those who voted Tory at the last election, or the one previously, wouldn't mind giving their oppinions:

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?
3. What do you want to see replace the NHS?
4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

I am so sick of the sneering from (mostly) Labour voters aimed at (mostly) Conservative voters with all the emotive, virtue signalling posts.

I think you're suffering from confirmation bias, because there is more than enough sneering directed at Labour from Tories. Snipes like calling us "communists", or jokes about the magic money tree and spending other people's money, or the outright offensive tropes about laziness and being benefit scroungers. The claims that Labour benefits don't promote hard work like the tories. And all this is echoed in the mainstream media.

I also think a lot of the complaints of virtue signalling and being emotive are nothing more than attempts to shut down criticism of harmful policies. If someone doesn't think people can be genuine in their disgust at the deaths of vulnerable people then it says more about them than those who are supposedly virtue signalling.

Not sure the NHS is in crisis, but needs better management. It's a bottomless pit, so more money wouldn't achieve much. Better spending if what there is might help.

Defence and Brexit were my main priorities.

I currently use the Belgian health system, which is co pay, and has some brilliant clinics founded by GPs where the blood tests get turned round in a day; where you can see a cardiologist etc, without having to go to the hospital. It's much faster. We need to look at how other countries manage their health care. It's not a binary choice between the NHS and the U.S. system.

I would like HMG to sort out the PFI payments that Labour foisted on to the NHS, preferably by making the PFI contract holders a one time payment to end the contract. If the PFI payments didn't have to be made, then that would help. I would also like to see better organisation when making appointments and during those appointments. Much more organised in Belgium.

Yes, I would vote the same again. I have never voted Labour, and definitely won't be doing so whilst Corbyn leads them, and whilst Momentum is about.

@Slarti I think you're suffering from confirmation bias, because there is more than enough sneering directed at Labour from Tories

OK, I'll accept that, as I guess I am right of centre, but certainly not diehard blue by any stretch. My vote at the GE was done with a very reluctant and depressed heart at the shitty state of politics all round, and it's not got much better since.

I also think a lot of the complaints of virtue signalling and being emotive are nothing more than attempts to shut down criticism of harmful policies. If someone doesn't think people can be genuine in their disgust at the deaths of vulnerable people then it says more about them than those who are supposedly virtue signalling.

But that is unfair and inaccurate, and the type of emotive comment I meant in my earlier post. Of course we all care. We're all trying to do the best we can with what we've got available. Claiming disgust at people dying (or whatever other polarising issue) isn't exclusive to one set of voters. We are all human beings - not one group of saints fighting back a scourge of evil automatons (you can apply that in either direction!).

As a pp says, I do think we all want broadly the same end result, we just disagree with the best way to get there.

Can we at least agree on that?

If someone doesn't think people can be genuine people in their disgust at the deaths of vulnerable people

These stories are sometimes deliberate falsification of the facts. I've seen a webpage full of ranty 'look what Tory cuts do'. Basically it was Person A is terminally ill. Person A is on benefits. Person A gets their benefits reduced for some reason. Person A dies. The warped conclusion is Tory cuts killed Person A! Which is a patent load of cobblers; someone twisting the facts to suit their ideology.

malificent7 Wed 28-Feb-18 07:20:26
I think the reason why people are bitter about toffs is the priveledge. It's hard to feel goodwill to a group ofpeople who are living it up whilst barely surviving even though uou ste working all hours. For me it is the reluctance of the rich to share ( pay taxes) that breeds resentment. They think they are rich as they are superior and less feckless.

This is just a massive generalisation on your part. You can't possibly characterise all 14 million Tory voters in this way, just as they wouldn't say Labor voters are all benefit scroungers.

Your comments about the reluctance of the rich to share are idiotic. There are a very small number of super wealthy people in any country who can afford to avoid paying tax and that gets everyone's backs up, and is wrong however it is not easy or maybe even impossible to change this. Don't tar middle class people who also work bloody hard with the same brush. The reason Corbyn has not won power in my opinion is that his ultra-divisive rhetoric about the many, not the few, actually targets a very large number of households in the UK and not just the super-rich elite.

I know to people who are struggling to get by, a household income of say £80k seems massive and I am not going to go down the road of saying it is not, but these people will have big mortgages and high childcare costs too. Where I live childcare is £80 per day per child. So 2 kids = £800 a week. So one partner needs to earn about £50k just to cover the childcare bill alone.

For people earning this sort of salary there is no viable tax avoidance route and therefore the majority of people on this sort of salary pay an absolute shit-ton of tax, massive income tax, tax on everything they buy, I can honestly say that well over half the money I earn goes to HMRC. This is a lot of tax. I am more than happy to pay this but not to the point that I can't afford to live in my own house any more, I am not alone in being reluctant to give even more of my money away ESPECIALLY when it seems that public services appear to be poorly managed, procurement processes look crap on the whole and the tax money is not spent efficiently

Problem with your thinking purits is that many of the cases have been confirmed by coroners as directly relating to a reduction in benefits.
The fact is that people are dying due to their benefits being removed. It's a fact, it's not propaganda.

• just look at it like this : if Blair and Brown hadn't spent the nations money carpet bombing the Middle East we might have some money to support a great deal of infrastructure.

The NHS isn't underfunded at all, its is chronically mismanaged. One of its biggest drains on NHS monies is PFI mortgages, another Blair Esq brainchild.*

This ^^

A

Butchmanda
I'd like to know why anyone who isn't a fucking toff would vote Tory. And, then ask all Tory voters, who is going to rescue you from your burning mansion or cut you from your crashed Jag on the motorway when the Tories have finished with cuts to emergency services. That's what I can't understand! You don't get fucking private fire engines. Admittedly deeply disappointed in the Blair/Brown performances in the last Labour Government but even so ....

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that I'm not you, I would hate to be so bitter and twisted and judgemental.

I am a Tory voter, physically disabled, who lives in a one bedroom flat and cannot afford a car. Perhaps you could let me know when its my turn to move into a mansion and get a jag?

@ShotsFired

But that is unfair and inaccurate, and the type of emotive comment I meant in my earlier post. Of course we all care. We're all trying to do the best we can with what we've got available.

Do you really believe that? That we're living in this nice fluffy world where everybody cares? That is inaccurate (and more than a little naive). Some people don't care, they're indifferent at best or hostile at worst. You wouldn't say nobody is racist, or everybody wants equal rights for women, so why say everybody cares about vulnerable people? They don't.

Claiming disgust at people dying (or whatever other polarising issue) isn't exclusive to one set of voters.

No, but currently one set of policies is doing observable harm to people. I think it's unfair and unreasonable to expect people to be uncritical of support of policies they see as harmful! What Tories voters seem to want is to vote for policies which do harm but then be free from any criticism for enabling that harm, and to bandy their own "Virtue signalling" accusations around as a way of shutting discussion down.

Slarti not everyone cares, but there are no more non-carers who vote Labour than Conservative.
How many of the luvvies in tax avoidance schemes voted Conservative? How many of the BBC staff who set-up as 'self-employed' voted Conservative?
How much was the benefit increase in the Labour manifesto?
The big spending promises of free university education and free social care benefit the middle classes. How does a dead person benefit from not selling their home for care? Only those inheriting benefit.

The UK has about the lowest home energy cost per unit in Europe due to private providers. We use more energy due to an older housing stock, partly caused because the Labour Government after the war mis-managed the Marshall plan money used in Germany to re-build industry and homes.

I am not sure where the Labour party is helping the poor.