Calling Tory Voters

[donquixotedelamancha]

Some recent NHS themed threads have me thinking. I wonder whether those who voted Tory at the last election, or the one previously, wouldn't mind giving their oppinions:

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?
3. What do you want to see replace the NHS?
4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

I imagine that you wanted to provoke reaction. So I will say that you are coming from a very naive stance. I first started working for the NHS in 1969. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN CRISIS. Every single government has been unable/unwilling to tackle it. political suicide. Of course it is and always will be underfunded. I have lost count of the number of re organisation, money saving efforts, . The proportion of GDP is lower than in other countries but no one is prepared to pay a high pile of more tax.Every voter looks at what is best NOW for themselves and their families. No one would vote for that party. Working in health makes your thinking very socialist, wanting fairness and equality. This gives us a bit of a blind spot to the evils of capitalism, which unfortunately pays to make our country viable. I am also old enough to have lived through yo yo govts where Labour spent enough to make us happy and then the Cons screwed down to get us back in the black. Yes I have voted Labour and Yes I have voted Conservative. Dont kid youself Corbyn is the saviour, where is the money going to come from? More to the point all the money in the world would stop the massive money pit demand that is the NHS. Will every new medical advance, every new pioneering operation, every new wonder drug, come new demands. Every man and his wife pops in to A and E for non emergency care. Not to mention the demands we ourself create like living too long, smoking and obesity.BFIs were an unmitigated disaster. Ludicrous builds, health centres as big as hospitals, no improved function, just a debt for 30 years. And on another subject in our litigation era, seen the bill for litigation? I saw a case that had absolutely no foundation that was paid off as it would be cheaper that contesting it. Lets screw the NHS. Sorry folks, neither Labour of Cons can sort this one. If we want a well funded NHS WE, in taxes will need to fund it. To do that we need a thriving economy. Catch 22 eh voters? Forget the pied piper he hasnt got it

We are lucky to have our NHS and I don't think any of us want it replaced. However it needs paying for so maybe tax should go up to fund what is needed

Former NHS employee here too.Well said CONFUSED.Especially the blind spot to the evils of Capitalism and the demands we create ,and the expectations we have of the NHS that in its current format are not sustainable given the ageing ,growing and increasingly obese population.

My bitter bitter experience of poor NHS care has taught me two things. Be prepared to fight like a tiger to get attention and to the front of a to do list. AND be really polite when you are doing it. I needed it and didn't have that for myself 10 years ago. I used it when my late mother was ill a couple of years ago. I wasn't going to be shunted to the back of a queue for her care because I was either too meek, too fearful or too obviously distressed.
Is that really what it has come to?

I worked in the NHS (although not employed by it) on a team which would be parachuted in when things went wrong. Too many staff view the purpose of the NHS as to keep them employed rather than to care for patients.

Remember Mid Staffs happened and all the staff except for a few brave whistleblowers kept their gobs shut about what was going on. And the whistleblowers were subjected to awful abuse and threats.

But now apparently loads of people are prepared to speak out. Which funnily enough coincides with their pay demands not being met. Make of that what you will.

How many times do we hear, "I feel I need more time to do my job to the best of my ability, if I am pushed or to much is expected of me I feel I am not performing as well as I could and its not fair so I will have to go off sick", from public sector workers but never private sector workers.

The NHS is not fit for purpose as it was not designed for anything even remotely resembling the demands now placed on it by society, and particularly a contemptible lack of personal responsibility with regard to lifestyle, eating, drinking, smoking, also an obsession with keeping people alive to ages of 100+ at all costs whether they have any quality of life or not

What blows my mind about these risible Tory bashing posts are that presumably the OP thinks that Corbyn coming in, borrowing a fortune to throw at the NHS for a few short years, which would leave us fiscally in an even worse situation than we are in now, is somehow the answer rather than confronting the harsh reality about how changes in societal attitudes have rendered the NHS unsustainable in its present form

If you think the likes of Corbyn, Abbott and Rayner etc have the intellectual ability, vision, or leadership skill to do a better job of strategy and reform to tackle these issues, than a Tory government then I'm afraid you are simply deluded

But now apparently loads of people are prepared to speak out. Which funnily enough coincides with their pay demands not being met. Make of that what you will.

They keep wheeling out the same nurse for interviews too whenever there's an anti -Tory NHS story - introduced just as 'staff nurse xxx' by the BBC et al (somehow they all forget to mention that she's a momentum activist).

Can't remember her name off the top of my head but she's ubiquitous.

I’m a former Tory voter but I became disillusioned to the extent that I joined the Labour Party. Grenfell and the continued under funding of the police were the last straws for me.

I seriously disliked Blair and Brown and yes they did leave the country in a bad way but the Tories have had long enough.

I hate the system most of us are trapped in and it’s about time for a change.

They keep wheeling out the same nurse for interviews too whenever there's an anti -Tory NHS story - introduced just as 'staff nurse xxx' by the BBC et al (somehow they all forget to mention that she's a momentum activist).

There are a few but one (Danielle Tiplady) is a hard left activist who writes for the Morning Star.

That's the one! Danielle Tiplady.

@MotheringMilly

Your only filling one slot of the many many labour members who have left labour, and the meme of a tory member switching ideologies is a bit of tired meme at this point.

Caveat: I don't buy into the Corbynist & virtue-signaller strategy of blaming individual voters for deaths, so I don't blame Labour voters personally for the following deaths, although I do blame the Labour govt.

Ah, so when you said "the death toll caused by Labour Voters" you were just trolling. And you went on to follow it up with a virtue signal about virtue signalling. How amusing.

As for the blood on Blair's hands, I thought everybody was in agreement about that, including (and especially) Labour voters. Blair is a pariah to us for what he did. Pity the same can't be said of Tories, either for deaths abroad or at home. When a party campaigns on reducing the welfare bill, then people die after their benefits are stopped, you can't just wash your hands of it and call it virtue signalling to be appalled that people weren't and aren't moved enough to say "no". But by all means tell me how moved you are by the deaths caused by Blair.

*I’m a former Tory voter but I became disillusioned to the extent that I joined the Labour Party. Grenfell and the continued under funding of the police were the last straws for me.

I seriously disliked Blair and Brown and yes they did leave the country in a bad way but the Tories have had long enough.*

Do you not see that your 2 paragraphs are inextricably linked

It was the terrible mismanagement of public borrowing & overspending that directly lead to public services cuts we are now experiencing

Blair oversaw massive deregulation of the process of signing off tower blocks that cut out the Fire Brigade's involvement, in order to green light building of more vote-winning housing, that was not necessarily safe

The 7 years the Tories have had is nowhere near enough sadly as the defecit which they have cut substantially is still running so our structural debt is still growing

Do you think Corbyn borrowing loads more money and increasing the deficit, to give money away to poor people and pay for services that we simply can not afford, is going to improve this situation? Or make it much worse for when the Torys inevitably have to come back to sort it out again.

Any ideas why bold doesn't work for me? Maybe cut back due to austerity.

oh

When a party campaigns on reducing the welfare bill, then people die after their benefits are stopped, you can't just wash your hands of it and call it virtue signalling to be appalled that people weren't and aren't moved enough to say "no". But by all means tell me how moved you are by the deaths caused by Blair.

When Labour where running on a campaign on not reversing many a majority of the cuts to the welfare bill, maybe you should have an objective rethink about childishly saying tory voters have blood on their hands.

Ah, so when you said "the death toll caused by Labour Voters" you were just trolling. And you went on to follow it up with a virtue signal about virtue signalling. How amusing.



What the fuck?!

@Slarti - I suggest you check back as to who wrote the initial post.

(Clue: it wasn't me).

I just replied to another poster.

FFS

When a party campaigns on reducing the welfare bill

And what use will those benefits be when Momentum bankrupts the country? Lets ask people in Greece!

When Labour where running on a campaign on not reversing many a majority of the cuts to the welfare bill, maybe you should have an objective rethink about childishly saying tory voters have blood on their hands.

Ah, so it's OK to say labour voters have blood on their hands because Blair did something nobody voted for, but it's not OK to say tory voters can't just wash their hands of the things they DID vote for?

1.Yes, No - it's mismanaged and is a bottomless pit

1. Around midway down my list
2. Combination of state and private like some EU states have
3. Yes, not torn at all.

Slarti

When you say Labour borrow less than the Conservaives, you have to remember that is mainly because of the shit financial position left behind. Have you forgotten the IMF bailing us out in 1977 and have you included all the PFI spending in Labour's pot?

The only regulation the Consrvatives mentioned removing before the crash was SoX, which is pointless - more regulation does not mean better regulation.

It is worth remembering it was not a global crisis - US, UK, Ireland, Spain and Iceland are not the world.

So what's the better system that should replace/amend it?
I'm not a Tory voter, but I'll answer this anyway. I think we can learn from other countries' healthcare systems.

Canada - What you pay at the point of use depends on medical need and ability to pay.
Germany - Everyone is covered by a health insurance plan. People who earn below ~ €50 000 per year are enrolled into a "sickness fund", paid for with joint employer-employee contributions, based on income, and government subsidies. Those who claim benefits have their health insurance paid for by the government. Higher earners, government employees and self-employed have private insurance to supplement the statutory health insurance, but use it to access the same services.

Unless we significantly raise taxes (which most people will be opposed to), we need to completely change the way the NHS works.

What evidence is there that most people don't want to pay more tax for the NHS? I'd pay more happily if it was ringfenced.

It is worth remembering it was not a global crisis - US, UK, Ireland, Spain and Iceland are not the world.

The repercussions where felt around the world though, and for all the talk about "it started in the US" seriously downplays our involvement in the initiation of CDO's. Our banks where one of the first that started offering 100+& mortgages and started taking government subsidies into account with applications.

Working Tax credits are also having repercussions in today's climate as it was a typical labour quick fix and kick the can down the road solution.