Calling Tory Voters

[donquixotedelamancha]

Some recent NHS themed threads have me thinking. I wonder whether those who voted Tory at the last election, or the one previously, wouldn't mind giving their oppinions:

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?
3. What do you want to see replace the NHS?
4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

Virtue Signaller Alert

It is, they all come out of the woodwork on threads like this.

It ties in perfectly with the analysis done after the last GE

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41349409

Quite agree JoeyMatnard I had the misfortune to train under the project 2000 era that's when nurse training started changing for ever and not necessarily for the Better

Maynard* stupid phone !

The vast majority of PFI deals for the NHS were signed in the years of the labour government.
I think they need serious reform and it needs to be done cross party but labour will never agree to that because it is a big vote winner for them (which is fair enough as the conservatives would do the same if it were the other way around).
I think they should use NIC or a separate tax for the NHS so it is clear that if you are paying in more where exactly the money is coming from then people have a choice do you want to pay an extra 1,2,3% for the NHS or not and you vote accordingly.
NHS is so big that you should be able to get massive economies of scale but they seem to overpay for lots of stuff. Maybe central procurement would help with that.
I think they should get opinions of the NHS staff and find out where efficiencies can be made as these are the people that would know.

x2boys

It’s sad isn’t it. I feel so sorry for young nurses nor.

We have s watsapp group for all of us and as I said we are all senior nurses but couldn’t have afforded uni fees back in the day. We were so lucky I guess. Rent free nurses home 2 mins from the teaching hospital. Paid while training and our rooms cleaned by maids. Hey ho.

I think the whole nhs needs reforming, stripping back and changing.

No government has the balls though. Silly really as I think the general population would support this as a cross party committee with no holes barred.

A hypotheticated tax for the NHS would severely impact on the poor. Currently no tax is paid on the first £11.5k and the top 1% pay 27% of income tax. If you put a tax for the NHS, you would need to reduce the threshold and it would be much more regressive.
Getting out of the PFI deals is as expensive as staying in them, so no benefit to leaving them.

1. Yes. No
2. No
3. It costs 10% of the tax we pay. Service is crap. We would be better off going private with that 10% to pay for it
4. Yes. Yes

olivia

Spot on there. Absolutkry spot on.

My dh does out sourcing and in sourcing snd has many many colleagues who are self employed consultants on over a grand a day, quite normal
Pay for contractors in ALL areas of the public sector ‘advising’ so called NHS managers who just need to do their bloody jobs. They are on far salaries too and virtually un sackable.

Baffling

It is sad yes when i trained it wss in the early 90,s project 2000 was relatively new and staff didn't quite know what to do with students as we were "super numery" untill rostered practice we got a full bursery of £360/month which even 25 years ago was rubbish but no uni fees or anything .

Just out of interest, how long will it take for "Blair is a war criminal!!!1!" to cease being valid as a reason to excoriate Labour as it is now? Just guessing here, but is it about the same time as the Tories will keep on using "Gordon Brown fucked the global economy" as an excuse for the past eight years of Tory misrule?

There's only 3 certain things in life, death, taxes, and innumerate lefties screeching for more money for the NHS.

Health spending has multipled many times over in recent decades and can't continue at the same rate of growth or it would exceed 100% of tax take. Given demographic issues something is going to have to give, either the Tories will make the hard but inevitable choices and get accused of murdering the sick, or labour will be in power, stick their heads in the sands and bankrupt the economy again and be forced to reduce health spending and blame everyone else for it.

No one party is to blame, but Labour have a history of overspending.

When they left office, there was even a note left in the Treasury saying there was no money left!

Gordon Brown maxed out the Country's credit card and whoever won the 2010 election was going to have to make significant cuts, even Labour acknowledged that they would.

The problem as I see it is that Jeremy Corbyn is promising money and funding for everything, but we still have a huge deficit. Quite simply, his maths do not add up.

I disagree with a lot of Tory policy and have no particular alignment to any political party. However, I would never vote Labour whilst JC is leader. Or whilst Diane Abbott has any senior position.

The NHS is horrifically managed. Having worked in it I can tell you as a fact that the amount of middle management is ridiculous, there are career sickies who work 6 months on 6 months on sick leave and then come back for 6 months before going off again for 6 months on sick. 6 months is the max time they get paid in full when on sick leave before it goes to half pay. People have been doing this for 15 years. While they are off we are employing other staff to do their job.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?

See above.

1. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?

Yes.

1. What do you want to see replace the NHS?

Nothing, it just needs better management.

1. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

I’d vote conservative again, I don’t feel torn.

I just look at it like this : if Blair and Brown hadn't spent the nations money carpet bombing the Middle East we might have some money to support a great deal of infrastructure.

Quite.

Blair and Brown also crippled hospitals with PFI contracts.

The last labour government also pissed £20bn up the wall on the NHS computer system that had to scrapped as it would never work.

Next.

The NHS is not fit for purpose. Some examples of what I have seen...
Bloated with “managers” and massive support staff who earn more than the actual care givers. Saw a new ward open with 8 nurses/ auxiliaries- with 9 admin/ management positions (each of which earned more that the care givers). Paper everywhere. Procurement without any checks (no audits done of stock ordered or supplies). Computers (fully functional) thrown in skips because they reach a certain age. Repainting wards that are due for closure within 12 months.

Plus-
A ridiculous attitude by many that “I’m paying for it so I will take it” when it comes to prescriptions for items they could easily buy.
And that’s before you start on the PFI costs.

But yes, just blame the Tories.

PFI started under Major's government. Just saying.

I must say again

The banks
The banks
The banks

Why do people forget the banks 😖

If tax payers really knew how much contractors are paid and how many there are in the public sector There would be an out cry. In the NHS, HMRC, Defra. Every aspect of government.

The sickness, stress, people on pointless courses and staff development, people leaving early to avoid the traffic!!! Yes really!! These are not Coal face nurses or job centre staff by the way they are senior managers on very very good salaries with pensions etc.

They can’t or won’t do their jobs and contractors fill the gap with a horrendous bill for the tax payer.

Government committees and civil servants plan their meetings around monthly lunches. The commission for racial equality in Birmingham held a weekly Friday lunch! So tax payers money fir them to eat a buffet every Friday.

This goes on in the NHS and all areas of the public sector at senior management level. No control or accountability

There's another thread just on about a poor lady unable to feed herself and having to resort to food banks, repeatedly being kicked in the teeth just because she has the misfortune to be ill. How's that permittable in 2018?

It certainly is a goady thread. Happy to contribute however, to counteract the left-wing virtue-signalling bullcrap that seems to dominate MN lately.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?

I don't think it's in crisis, but the point's come where it needs more money. I think that Jeremy Hunt having a broadened remit to cover social care is a good thing, it'll lead to more joined-up thinking.

1. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?

Yes, it's important. There are some things that are better off in the public sector rather than private - e.g. national infrastructure, healthcare. Market competition in the healthcare system leads to the American setup, and that's not something I'd care to emulate.

1. What do you want to see replace the NHS?

Happy with it as it is - but at a push? Maybe like the German system, where the government covers 95% of the cost. Reduces health tourism, as you have to pay out and claim a refund; also increases patient choice. But actually quite happy with current setup.

1. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

Yes, I'll always be a Tory. :) Not feeling torn - for all the virtue signalling we get from the left, as Thatcher said, "The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money".

The GP contract Labour brought in has been a disaster as well. GPs are now paid a fortune for less work, enabling them to go part time much earlier. Also not providing proper out of hours care anymore has put more pressure on A&E.

The public are also to blame for increased legal costs and for expecting world class everything in every hospital. Its perfectly sensible to have hospitals specialising in different fields, centres of excellence. So what if some people have to travel a little bit further, its for the good of us all.

I was a contractor in the NHS. It's no longer the way you describe. There are fixed pay rates, you can no longer get paid via your limited company so get saddled with employers' NI via an umbrella company. My deductions were 40% of my pay. I gave up as it wasn't worth the trouble, most other contractors I know have too.

dondie

Spot on.

worlds

So!!! Bailing out the banks has no bearing on the mismanagement and inefficiencies of the NHS. Not saying the bloody bankers shouldn’t have been held more accountable although it did happen on labours watch with Browns deregulation just as black Monday happened under the tories!

The NHS is too important to be political and too important to not be reformed

Quite JoeyMaynard people go on about cuts to mental health quite apart from the ward I mentioned that was refurbished for £900,000 to be closed down 12 months later (permanently) a community mental health team that works for the trust I used to work for plastered pictures all over facebook of there away day canoeing and other out door pursuits now I know its a damned hard job but this away day was all funded by tax payers money whilst the trust claims they don't have enough money for patient care .

The banking crisis was global. The ignorance of some people.